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#11
07-07-2005, 03:54 PM
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Re: Review of Ace on the River
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Thank you for the time you spent for the review. However, perhaps you would also like to share with us, what were your initial expectations. Did you expect a pure theory book like HOH or SSH? At the end it's all about expectations. What if you would expect the book to be the worst book ever? Than you would be positively surprised. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] No matter what he was expecting, it sounds like the book is a bunch of fluff. I'm one of the suckers that ordered it due to Mason's review. [/ QUOTE ] He certainly went out of his way to made it SOUND like a bunch of fluff, that's for sure. Try forming your own opinion. [/ QUOTE ] I guess you guys are right. But Mason once did rate Poker Farce and Poker Truth a 9 so who knows. 
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#13
07-07-2005, 04:05 PM
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Re: Review of Ace on the River
I look at it this way...
On the one hand, at least a half dozen top poker pros and writers have said the book is incredible. On the other hand, one nameless, faceless poster on 2+2 that I wouldn't know from Adam has said it's a waste of time. I'm still looking forward to it.
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#14
07-07-2005, 04:32 PM
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Re: Review of Ace on the River
[ QUOTE ]
I look at it this way... On the one hand, at least a half dozen top poker pros and writers have said the book is incredible. On the other hand, one nameless, faceless poster on 2+2 that I wouldn't know from Adam has said it's a waste of time. I'm still looking forward to it. [/ QUOTE ] I had only seen the Mason review. But beforehand, looking at the Table of Contents, it didn't seem like it had alot of meat. Now, I can't wait to read it for another reason. Is this going to be Braveheart or Waterworld?
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#16
07-07-2005, 04:59 PM
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Re: Review of Ace on the River
Here is Howard Schwartz's review:
Barry Greenstein, one of poker's most successful, respected money players on the planet--and a top tournament player as well-ranks among the most well-regarded, educated and unorthodox individuals ever to play the game. Doyle Brunson calls him "the consummate professional poker player," adding, "His attitude, demeanor at the table, and approach to the game sets him apart from most pros." Brunson considers Greenstein in his "top ten all-time best poker players." And as an example of what the man is like, you should understand that Greenstein does something few players do. He contributes his tournament winnings to charities--most keyed to children. His first book, Ace on the River (316 pages, paperbound, $25) has just been published. It is, in Greenstein's own words, designed ..."for professional poker players and those aspiring to become professionals." He is blunt and honest in his approach to the game. "Many assertions in the book are not based on scientific study or mathematical proof. They are only the results of my observations." (He did write computer programs to verify some of the material with the results available on his web site). Greenstein's background is fascinating. Although he won't admit to being a genius, he probably is. He began playing poker at age 12. He would earn a college degree in three years and would spend another decade earning a graduate degree in mathematics (while playing poker). In many ways, Greenstein might be called "brutally honest" when writing about his own life--his victories and losses; the people he met, who influenced him; who he learned from. The book is an extraordinary mixture of preparation-to-survive material; an inside look at a world unto itself because only the sharpest survive to fight another day and advice from one of the best ever. Who are the casino personnel you'll eventually encounter as a pro; what percentage of the playing "community" are pros; what are stake horses; who are the wannabes; who are the hangers-on; the predators? Greenstein discusses superstition; attitude (handling issues in your life mirrors how you will play poker); survival tips ("adjustments"); what separates winners from losers; why poker is a game of personalities; why poker players "tend to be borderline compulsive and why most poker players don't have "a long term plan to improve their playing ability." For many who want to cut to the chase--get to the point immediately--, Chapter 11, Making Money, gets it all going, followed by Holding Onto Your Money. Here, Greenstein warns and advises poker players who often get involved in sports betting of the dangers; discusses how to protect against cheaters; and expresses why family support and regard for your own family should be "first priority." One provocative chapter involves the controversy of who the best player in the world is and how that determination can ever be made. Greenstein examines the role of gambling in society, throughout history and how poker has taught him to analyze issues from different perspectives. Just how much mathematical ability is required to become a good player? Is it more important to be able to think logically? Can mathematics be misused at the tables? Does mastery of the concepts of game theory "separate the top players" from the rest? The book discusses money management; presents "play lessons" such as "You often play the same hand differently against different opponents or under different circumstances," and how to recognize scare cards that may allows you to bluff opponents. Packed with color photos, nice large, easy to read type, the book mixes in innovative ideas with personal experience and sample hands. It is a rare combination of intuition, the need to teach--to help players improve their game--and their approach to life. The section on No-Limit Tournament Hands is one of the best, along with Tables for Hold'em After the Flop (if the number of outs is known, what is the chance of winning?) and a look at typical drawing hands that produce a certain number of outs on the flop. Bottom line, quoting Brunson about this special book: "...contains a lot of stuff I knew but had never seen written." My sentiments exactly. Bravo Greenstein.
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#17
07-07-2005, 05:28 PM
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Re: Review of Ace on the River
As in medicine, poker books should "first do no harm". So few books meet this requirement that those that do get at least a seven. If the book is an interesting read that's another point. From there, the key is whether there is stuff that you didn't already know, is accurately and well presented, and will make you money. There is only one piece of strategy advice in the whole book (which I did not read with a fine tooth comb) that I have a small problem with and will discuss in the future (KQ with board of TT8 and King on the turn). I think I agree with every else. There is one sample hand regarding seven stud where he packs so much good information into it he could have made it a whole chapter.
The non strategy parts of the book (more than half) will help different people to varying degrees. One thing it does is try to identify and patch up various leaks you may have. He also tries to show you what it means to think like an ultra high stakes winning player. I believe he does a good job. And most readers will both enjoy and benefit from those words. But not so much the posters on this forum. Their nature is to have already patched up their leaks and to grind out a nice hourly rate often multitabling on the internet or in a casino that doesn't offer super big games. Thus the readers of this forum are not apt to be as gushy about the book as either beginners or higher stakes players. Barry thinks his is the best poker book ever written, and well, of course, thats wrong. But when a mother has a newborn she is sure it is the cutest baby alive and who wants to burst her bubble? Barry's baby is quite cute though and is well worth buying.
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#19
07-07-2005, 06:01 PM
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Re: Review of Ace on the River
I couldn't agree more with your review of the book. I paid overnight shipping too, I was really excited for it to come. There's not really much substance to it. The actual poker content is very low. IF I WANTED TOURNAMENT HANDS I WOULD PURCHASE HOH2. But I digress. I really wanted to learn more about high limit holdem and I was extremely dissapointed.
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#20
07-07-2005, 07:21 PM
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Re: Review of Ace on the River
Hi Boon:
I agree with much of what you say but I still stand by my favorable comments towards Ace on the River. It's a unique book that is designed to help moderately high limit players, I would say those playing $80-$160 (like I do) and higher move to even bigger games and be successful. And, it just turns out that much of what Greenstein talks about are problems that do hold back many of the players at these limits from becoming great players in their own right. On the other hand, if you're struggling to move from let's say $10-$20 to $20-$40, which probably characterizes many of our posters, Greenstein's book should prove to be mainly entertaining. It will also be entertaining to someone very new to poker who's curious about the lifestyle and challenges that the very high limit players face. So while I think the book has much more value than you do, I do concede that others will react to it in a similar fashion as you have and I respect that opinion. Perhaps Barry himself will find the time to address some of your criticisms. Best wishes, Mason
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