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#15
08-14-2007, 12:00 PM
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Re: More FPS with top set (1/2)
WHY
WHY WHY DEAR GOD WHY they are all blocking each others outs and they arent folding and this way you just leave a lot of the money you could win on the table because there is too much money left to bet on the turn. (shoving is likely not allin) You just cant accomplish anything by minraising other than letting them suck out on you cheap and forcing you to fold turn. 
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#16
08-14-2007, 03:15 PM
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Re: More FPS with top set (1/2)
No one at all liked this? I really thought someone would. And no it wasn't a massive level or anything. First off, I'm holding the ten in addition to my top set, so it's going to be really hard to run into middle set or top two or anything I'd get in really great against, and my equity's also going to be significantly reduced if I get it in against a big draw.
If I make a real raise, I'm going to be folding out the weak draws that are drawing close to dead and will be putting their money in incorrectly anyway, and I probably leave myself one on one with a single strong draw that's about a 55/45 favorite over me or get in against one player with a wrap and another with a flush draw where I'm also not in great shape. This way, I get some money in way ahead, leave about a PSB to push hard on a safe turn where the strong draws will be significantly behind and may not have odds to call. Also, I'm repping a draw really strong so that if anyone does have a weak made hand out there that I dominate, they're going to be really tempted to just shove hard over the top. The only problem I see with my plan in retrospect is that if we get say the nut flush getting it in with second nut flush on the turn, I have the odds to call anyway, so I don't save anything by waiting for a safe turn and when I do hit one of the 6 turn cards that improves me, I lose a ton. Of course, I just pot it here about 99% of the time, but I thought that this was a decent idea to try once in this specific situation. As a bonus, I'm sure someone had to make a note on me that says "donkey min-raises 1/4 pot bet with top set on the flop" or something similar.
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#17
08-14-2007, 03:33 PM
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Re: More FPS with top set (1/2)
[ QUOTE ]
so it's going to be really hard to run into middle set or top two or anything I'd get in really great against [/ QUOTE ] "Loose donkeys" to me means naked flush draw will probably call, naked KJ might call, two pair might call [ QUOTE ] This way, I get some money in way ahead, leave about a PSB to push hard on a safe turn [/ QUOTE ] Count how many turn cards you actually think are safe if you get 2+ callers.
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#18
08-14-2007, 03:39 PM
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Re: More FPS with top set (1/2)
That's kind of the problem with the pot-size raise though. I'm going to get drawn out on so much that what's the point? Put another way, if I get 5 callers at $20 each and I'm 38% against the lot of them and can still protect my hand on the turn if it's good, isn't that better than getting two callers for $80 each and being 41% to win?
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#19
08-14-2007, 03:45 PM
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Re: More FPS with top set (1/2)
Well, results ended up perfect anyway:
PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $2 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums) UTG ($219.45) UTG+1 ($659.25) MP1 ($264.40) MP2 ($92) CO ($120) Hero ($205.15) SB ($111.60) BB ($188) Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $2. UTG calls $2, UTG+1 calls $2, MP1 calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $6, SB calls $5, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $4, UTG+1 calls $4, MP1 calls $4. Flop: ($40) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $10</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $10, MP2 calls $10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $20</font>, SB calls $20, UTG calls $10, MP1 calls $10, MP2 calls $10. Turn: ($140) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> SB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $137</font>, SB folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $66 (All-In). River: ($272) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font> Final Pot: $272 Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF"> Outcome: Hero wins $343. </font> Short-stack villain called the all-in with pair and a gutshot and I'm sure that if I'd just raised the flop, someone would have stuck around with J9 or a flush draw and I would have lost. Not a very useful hand in that I can't imagine another situation where I'd use this line will come up in the next 50,000 hands (maybe next time I'll only do it if I have 2 blockers on my redraw), but I thought it was an interesting hand nevertheless.
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#20
08-14-2007, 04:13 PM
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Re: More FPS with top set (1/2)
[ QUOTE ]
That's kind of the problem with the pot-size raise though. I'm going to get drawn out on so much that what's the point? Put another way, if I get 5 callers at $20 each and I'm 38% against the lot of them and can still protect my hand on the turn if it's good, isn't that better than getting two callers for $80 each and being 41% to win? [/ QUOTE ] If you get two callers you're committed to the hand regardess of the turn card.
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