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#11
10-18-2007, 02:17 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] As far as flops go and I think that there are 19,600 different ones, I have to agree that this is one the the better ones. There are many more that are much worse. Its just seems to me that when there is a pair on the flop someone seems to have one of the rank. This is, of course, absurd, and MUB. But, when there is a pair (after I have raised), I bet and get raised. yikes. [/ QUOTE ] Meh. Note to self: play flush draws on paired boards like it's the nuts against threeducks when he raised preflop. [X] <font color="red">easily exploitable tendency</font> However, OP, I think flop is good. I'm not sure about what to do on the turn but I think it's probably best just to fire at the scare card. After you get raised you have to play pokers with the guy. Does he ever get out of line? Against an unknown I'm going to call down and collect large monies about .03% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] <font color="red">easily exploitable tendency</font> something to watch, thanks. There are a few players that I would call all the way without a second thought and win maybe 50%. But, I do not know this guy very well yet. For instance, some clown checked raised me as a semi-bluff on one hand that I called him down with and won when he missed his gutshot. But, not many do that on 6/12. Him I know. I have been bluffed. One player played a set like a flush draw and got me to fold my 2ed nut one card straight using the 6 (3 did not play) staring at a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn. I try not to let that happen anymore. 3 way pot so I figured that one had a better straight or a flush. WRONG! 
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#12
10-18-2007, 02:26 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is not a good flop [/ QUOTE ] I've seen this a few times here lately where people raise with an overpair, the flop comes paired, and the poster makes a point to say that the flop is bad for their hand. It really isn't. 1)Your can't be sucked out on by two pair. 2)The flop doesn't look like it helped you any, so people will call with all sorts of stuff they shouldn't. -McGee [/ QUOTE ] So when you get raised here you're putting him on KQ/A2 etc?
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#13
10-18-2007, 02:46 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is not a good flop [/ QUOTE ] I've seen this a few times here lately where people raise with an overpair, the flop comes paired, and the poster makes a point to say that the flop is bad for their hand. [/ QUOTE ] yeah. everyone needs to stay away from this type of scared, weak thinking. paired flops are good for overpairs! paired flops keep our AA from getting outdrawn more often. paired flops can get our AA paid off by worse pairs more often(people call down more liberally on paired flops with as weak as Ahigh). paired flops hit fewer hand combinations against our AA. paired flops mean that if our AA improves, it's almost always to a full house. automatically crapping your pants on paired boards when you flop an overpair is not going to maximize value. that said, when you are recieving excess action on a paired board by a nonmaniac/LAG you need to possibly reevaluate your plan unless you carry a maniacal/LAG image yourself(this is important).
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#14
10-18-2007, 02:48 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
True enough, but the flip side is that, where like here, the action is heavy from villain, we have to get the drift and slow down sometime.
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#15
10-18-2007, 02:49 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
Why? Let him keep the lead. If you have him beat, the only hand that has any real draw is the flush draw (or something odd like 76). Let him "value bet" his 66 against your "AK" on the turn. I think you make more (or lose less) by playing passively with this hand.
As played, it looks really bad for you on the turn, but I want to see what he has for future reference. His raise right after you is not normally trips or a flush draw (since he's likely to push everyone else out), but he might just be thinking "good hand, raise". [ QUOTE ] I re-raise to put him on notice that I have better than AK and he calls. [/ QUOTE ]
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#17
10-18-2007, 03:00 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
Why? Let him keep the lead. If you have him beat, the only hand that has any real draw is the flush draw (or something odd like 76). Let him "value bet" his 66 against your "AK" on the turn. I think you make more (or lose less) by playing passively with this hand. As played, it looks really bad for you on the turn, but I want to see what he has for future reference. His raise right after you is not normally trips or a flush draw (since he's likely to push everyone else out), but he might just be thinking "good hand, raise". [ QUOTE ] I re-raise to put him on notice that I have better than AK and he calls. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I think there is an interesting idea lurking in this response. When he raises the flop and gets rid of everybody and we threebet why do we have to bet the flush card on the turn? There might be more value in c/c the turn and the river. It appears to me that we are now in a wa/wb situation. Given that we are heads up with a paired board we should almost always be showing down, right? So why don't we showdown monkey and start checking? Or we can check/call turn and bet/fold a non-club river UI. The only drawback I can think of is that we may lose some value on the turn if he decides to check 99-JJ or similar strength hands behind. I'd like to hear thoughts on this.
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#18
10-18-2007, 03:08 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Why? Let him keep the lead. If you have him beat, the only hand that has any real draw is the flush draw (or something odd like 76). Let him "value bet" his 66 against your "AK" on the turn. I think you make more (or lose less) by playing passively with this hand. As played, it looks really bad for you on the turn, but I want to see what he has for future reference. His raise right after you is not normally trips or a flush draw (since he's likely to push everyone else out), but he might just be thinking "good hand, raise". [ QUOTE ] I re-raise to put him on notice that I have better than AK and he calls. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] I think there is an interesting idea lurking in this response. When he raises the flop and gets rid of everybody and we threebet why do we have to bet the flush card on the turn? There might be more value in c/c the turn and the river. It appears to me that we are now in a wa/wb situation. Given that we are heads up with a paired board we should almost always be showing down, right? So why don't we showdown monkey and start checking? Or we can check/call turn and bet/fold a non-club river UI. The only drawback I can think of is that we may lose some value on the turn if he decides to check 99-JJ or similar strength hands behind. I'd like to hear thoughts on this. [/ QUOTE ] My opinion is that the flop was standard, he thinks "I have a flush draw and I am going to raise". It did clear the field and with a flush draw I think that the villian should have just called to get over calls. 1) a bigger flush draw behind is not folding and 2) a 8 is not folding and 3) a FH is raising. But, that was not part of the question. A good line here might have been to 3-bet the flop as I did and check the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] turn intending to check and call the river. This is more passive but 1) I get to the river cheaply and 2) I get to see his hand.
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#19
10-18-2007, 03:09 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is not a good flop [/ QUOTE ] I've seen this a few times here lately where people raise with an overpair, the flop comes paired, and the poster makes a point to say that the flop is bad for their hand. It really isn't. 1)Your can't be sucked out on by two pair. 2)The flop doesn't look like it helped you any, so people will call with all sorts of stuff they shouldn't. -McGee [/ QUOTE ] So when you get raised here you're putting him on KQ/A2 etc? [/ QUOTE ] Come on. That's not anywhere close to what I am saying. I never even addressed what happens post-flop bet. -McGee
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#20
10-18-2007, 03:11 PM
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Re: Red AA. 6/12 limit. Action on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
fwiw, i fold the turn against ALOT of live players. [/ QUOTE ] This most likely the best answer long term. I save a few bets when I think that I am behind. Only downside is that I do not get to see his hand for future reference. But, is it worth 2 BB to see his hand? I waiting to tell you what he called my preflop raise with and see what people think.
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