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#12
08-05-2006, 09:55 PM
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Re: +EV Craps through Comp Points?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not really knowledgeable about how comp points work, but I always thought they were given according to formulas like .75x your average wager for every hour of play. [/ QUOTE ] Excluding slots -- there is no universal formula. Your value to the club depends upon the game you play, the level, and sometimes your skill. Often times, whether or not they like you. Everything they're giving you has a cost basis for them. If the rooms aren't booked, free rooms are easy to give and get. Buffets have a marginal cost fairly close to zero, and are easy to give and get. Free use of their limo or shuttle usually only creates scheduling problems, so it just depends if its available. Food and drinks can have a substantial cost -- and are tighter. For show tickets -- they may be paying retail. Line passes are free. It all depends on the setup. Most clubs are based on profit centers, so the casino sees some charge for all comps they give. They'll calculate value at retail. So, to the player it may appear they're getting as much as 30% of their losses -- to the club, it will look more like 10%. And even that's to a small subset of the casino clients. 
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#13
08-06-2006, 02:28 PM
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Re: +EV Craps through Comp Points?
You seem to have missed my point.
My post explained why the OP's system doesn't mathematically provide a positive EV. It's not a matter of not understanding the situation. I went a bit further and explained that due to human factors the dealers and supervisors who are in direct face to face contact with the players who are attempting some little subterfuge, whether or not said scheme is ill conceived, are quite likely to dislike said players and are, therefore, less likely to assist them in their attempt to gain “something for nothing”, thereby making the plan even more negative EV by providing even less in the way of comps than the players could normally expect. This is a subject that actually does come up in staff meetings on occasion; teams playing Pass and Don't on Craps, red and black on Roulette, Bank and Player on Baccarat. Yes, management wants the action, but the human factor in the pits makes it very unlikely that they will get much of it. That's the way it works, right or wrong and regardless of whether or not the employees involved understand the math. If you act toward a pit boss as if you think him an idiot even though you yourself are the actual idiot, he is likely to do whatever is within his power to punish you for your attitude ... even though it costs his company some profit. So here's the point. The system won't work mathematically AND the mathematical return will be even further reduced because the people who have the discretionary power to assign comps will probably not like the players. Simple as that; no talk about the way the world ought to be, just the way it is. Afterthought: Your idea that Craps dealers would want shills on their game suggests to me that you haven't spent nearly as many years actually working in dice pits as I have. My experience is that shills are universally despised by Craps dealers. Any dealer truly worth his salt is fully capable of starting his own game.
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#15
08-07-2006, 12:26 AM
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Re: +EV Craps through Comp Points?
You guys, what about the possibility of two players playing at 2 different tables?
If one guy is throwing down big on the pass at one table and another guy throws down equally at a craps table nearby, could this warrant the big comps? Would the pit put 2 and 2 together and think them in cahoots?
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#16
08-07-2006, 12:27 AM
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Re: +EV Craps through Comp Points?
I just realized the sheer idiocy of what I just wrote. Please do not flame. I apologize, I'm a moron.
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#19
08-08-2006, 09:17 PM
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Re: +EV Craps through Comp Points?
[ QUOTE ]
Why not just suck up the variance and both bet the same way? (Assuming bank roll isn't an issue) [/ QUOTE ] Clearly bankroll was an issue to OP -- $2000 line bets are real sporting. Otherwise, I agree. Most people prefer games where a win is among the possible outcomes. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#20
08-09-2006, 06:58 PM
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Re: +EV Craps through Comp Points?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] One thing you may be missing is that table comps cannot be turned into cash like slot points can (with very very rare exceptions such as travel reimbursement or being a whale with a % of your losses returned). [/ QUOTE ] Comp points can be bought and sold among players at some casinos. I doubt casinos endorse this sort of thing as policy, but it can and does happen. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think you understand the difference between slot earned comps and table game comps. Yes I can get tickets to a show and resell them if that is what you mean but as far as dinner reservations and rooms it would be a logistical nightmare to even bother.
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