Strength/Weight

[theblackkeys]

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I started working out about 3 months ago, but haven't been consistent over that entire period.

I have lifted fairly seriously before and was starting out this time being out of shape.

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I'm pretty sure this is a big reason for little improvement.

[SmileyEH]

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Leg Curl - hell no
Leg Extension - hell no
Squats - hell yes
Straight-Arm Pullover - ?
Bench Press - hell yes
Back Row - ?
Overhead Press - hell yes
Bicep Curls - dont bother
Tricep Extensions - hell no
Wrist Curls - nooooo
Calf Raises - nooooooo
and some type of Ab exercise - hanging leg raises ftw

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Squat, deadlift, bench, rows. Thats how you gain mass, the workout you were doing is awful.

[dms]

I'm not going to claim that it's the best workout, but it's coming straight from someone involved in training world-class bodybuilders. Also, some exercises are not as crucial as others, but limiting yourself so much to a certain few seems like a bad way to go.

Not that you don't have some valid reasoning behind your comments, but I've seen people put on incredible amounts of very toned muscle in short periods of time while constantly incorporating numerous exercises you dismiss (and no roids or anything). So I wouldn't say this workout is aweful, maybe just not the style of training you're used to.

[dms]

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I started working out about 3 months ago, but haven't been consistent over that entire period.

I have lifted fairly seriously before and was starting out this time being out of shape.

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I'm pretty sure this is a big reason for little improvement.

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It certainly is, but I'm thinking there may be others as well.

[SmileyEH]

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I'm not going to claim that it's the best workout, but it's coming straight from someone involved in training world-class bodybuilders. Also, some exercises are not as crucial as others, but limiting yourself so much to a certain few seems like a bad way to go.

Not that you don't have some valid reasoning behind your comments, but I've seen people put on incredible amounts of very toned muscle in short periods of time while constantly incorporating numerous exercises you dismiss (and no roids or anything). So I wouldn't say this workout is aweful, maybe just not the style of training you're used to.

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I did a quick google on this program and from a 2 minute glance it looks like crap. fwiw your impression that you need to do lots of different exercises is wrong. For a while the bulgarian olympic weightlifting team trained ONLY front squat, snatch, and clean and jerk. They won a lot of gold medals.

Doing a 5x5 of back squats at 85%1rm is worth dozens of sets of leg extensions, calf raises, and leg press.

[dms]

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I'm not going to claim that it's the best workout, but it's coming straight from someone involved in training world-class bodybuilders. Also, some exercises are not as crucial as others, but limiting yourself so much to a certain few seems like a bad way to go.

Not that you don't have some valid reasoning behind your comments, but I've seen people put on incredible amounts of very toned muscle in short periods of time while constantly incorporating numerous exercises you dismiss (and no roids or anything). So I wouldn't say this workout is aweful, maybe just not the style of training you're used to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did a quick google on this program and from a 2 minute glance it looks like crap. fwiw your impression that you need to do lots of different exercises is wrong. For a while the bulgarian olympic weightlifting team trained ONLY front squat, snatch, and clean and jerk. They won a lot of gold medals.

Doing a 5x5 of back squats at 85%1rm is worth dozens of sets of leg extensions, calf raises, and leg press.

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I'm not saying that the method you're preaching is horrible or anything, just that I've seen other methods that you're bashing have results as good as anything out there.

For an extreme example, obviously wrist curls are not going to produce the mass gains that squats are. However, more squats at a certain point aren't going to be beneficial (see 10,000 a day). So, why not do a great job with squats and get all the great returns you can from them and then really work some other muscles that aren't exhausted.

[kyleb]

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Squat, deadlift, bench, rows.

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Quoted for truth.

In fact, if all you did were squats and deadlifts (or even just ONE of those), you'd be in a really good position.

Doing correct push-ups is also very helpful.

[Thremp]

Smiley,

Hamstring curls are somewhat important since they cover the other function of your hammies.

[Colt McCoy]

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I'm not going to claim that it's the best workout, but it's coming straight from someone involved in training world-class bodybuilders. Also, some exercises are not as crucial as others, but limiting yourself so much to a certain few seems like a bad way to go.

Not that you don't have some valid reasoning behind your comments, but I've seen people put on incredible amounts of very toned muscle in short periods of time while constantly incorporating numerous exercises you dismiss (and no roids or anything). So I wouldn't say this workout is aweful, maybe just not the style of training you're used to.

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You're not a world class bodybuilder. Stop trying to train like one. Limiting yourself is not a bad way to go. It's exactly what you need. Why does everyone want to make things more complicated than necessary?

If you're a natural hardgainer, all those movements are just counterproductive. In your initial post you asked about enough calories. There's an old saying about money that a penny saved is a penny earned. The same applies to calories. Burning calories needlessly is counterproductive, especially for hardgainers who already have trouble gaining weight. Eliminate all unnecessary exercise. This includes cardio and all the supplementary exercises. Stick with squats, deads and bench or military presses. Do just enough to stimulate muscle growth. No more.

Several people here have already given you the correct answer. If you're just going to insist your workout is a good one, why'd you bother to ask.

[dms]

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[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to claim that it's the best workout, but it's coming straight from someone involved in training world-class bodybuilders. Also, some exercises are not as crucial as others, but limiting yourself so much to a certain few seems like a bad way to go.

Not that you don't have some valid reasoning behind your comments, but I've seen people put on incredible amounts of very toned muscle in short periods of time while constantly incorporating numerous exercises you dismiss (and no roids or anything). So I wouldn't say this workout is aweful, maybe just not the style of training you're used to.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not a world class bodybuilder. Stop trying to train like one. Limiting yourself is not a bad way to go. It's exactly what you need. Why does everyone want to make things more complicated than necessary?

If you're a natural hardgainer, all those movements are just counterproductive. In your initial post you asked about enough calories. There's an old saying about money that a penny saved is a penny earned. The same applies to calories. Burning calories needlessly is counterproductive, especially for hardgainers who already have trouble gaining weight. Eliminate all unnecessary exercise. This includes cardio and all the supplementary exercises. Stick with squats, deads and bench or military presses. Do just enough to stimulate muscle growth. No more.

Several people here have already given you the correct answer. If you're just going to insist your workout is a good one, why'd you bother to ask.

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Maybe saying it is bad way to go is a mistake, but I guess I would prefer to train in a more all-around fashion, personally. I think this would lesson the risk of injuries and keep your body more toned and better prepared for most sports. Obivously you can go for mass and toned and fine tune later and that's fine.

I'm just saying that I, personally, have put on a significant amount of muscle mass in a short period of time by training with more sets on smaller muscles than even the "aweful" routine that I outlined in this thread. And, unfortunately, for much of that time I was unable to perform squats and deadlifts because of injury.

I've also seen many people become the largest person at the gym while doing what some people here are claiming are too many exercises.

I'm also not particularly amazed with the workout that I've posted, I'm just trying something different than what I've done in the past. However, all the attacks on this program seem to be that you're working to many smaller muscle groups to be able to put on weight effectively and the programs I've done in the past were much more intense in amount and frequency. And like I said, those programs worked for me and other people I knew, so when someone says that they are terrible and will not work nearly as well as another method...well, I know that's wrong.

I appreciate hearing what other people's opinions are and they can train however they like. In the end, I'm pretty sure that any reasonable program that keeps simple things in mind such as lifting heavy weights to gain muscle and light weights with a lot of reps to lose weight will work pretty well if the person really works hard at the gym and lifts with good form (I would say that a majority of people at the gym do not do these two things very well).