Must move rule- game killer or savior?

[_TKO_]

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Floor goes to must move game and asks " Would anyone here like to move"

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Doesn't sound like a must-move game to me...

[canis582]

The main game at the Bellagio 2-5nl usually sucks. Most of the fish go busto before or shortly after they reach the main table.

[LasVegasMichael]

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Floor goes to must move game and asks " Would anyone here like to move"

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Doesn't sound like a must-move game to me...

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Depends on the house. The above is exactly what the Mirage does to MM tables. They go to the table and ask if people want to move to the main game, and if so, they move, and if not, they call from the list.

[Benjamin]

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Floor goes to must move game and asks " Would anyone here like to move"

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Doesn't sound like a must-move game to me...

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Depends on the house. The above is exactly what the Mirage does to MM tables. They go to the table and ask if people want to move to the main game, and if so, they move, and if not, they call from the list.

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That approach makes way too much sense to be widely adopted. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

B.

[Don Olney]

Yeah,, what was I thinking here ----
Lets keep making it hard for the players ----
Who would have thought having the floor work would be out of line ------
Maybe if they put a slot machine next to each player so they would make a few extra bucks things would make more sense

[RR]

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This must move stuff should be so easy...
Main game is going.
Second game starts -- is a must move-- floor takes list of players on the game.
Seat opens in main game---
Floor goes to must move game and asks " Would anyone here like to move" If answer is no, if there is a list first name on the LIST goes to main game.
If there is no list and no one wants to move, then first name on the must move list is moved.

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I like this for smaller games. In larger games this creates an issue (not really an issue but something they will complain about). The players in the main game will see some players in the must move they would like to play against and feel they are entitled to have the casino bring them over to them eventually.

In general I am opposed to must move games. Typically when a second game starts the palyers you were protecting are long gone before games start breaking (there are some rooms/ some games where this is not the case).

[LearnedfromTV]

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I hate must move tables. I've seen too many players who were producers just drop out when they get moved to the main game. They just don't have enough chips. At our 2/5 main game it's common to have stacks at a $300 max buyin game of $1500. Who wants to roll into that with $400? If you get moved at $250 you can only buy another $50. I think it's ridiculous, since there's always a list until late at night.

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huh?

i don't play NL, but i know enough to know that if you're from a must move table then you can take your current amount to the new table.

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The point is that, especially later in the night, main games tend to be filled with players who have been there for a while and have big stacks. There aren't as many chips on the must move tables so usually people moving into the main game are understacked. This is actually more a symptom of stupid 40 or 60 BB caps (having to rebuy at the main game presents the same problem as having to move there, in general new players who would like to cover the table can't) than must moves, but the must move structure exacerbates the problem because chips flow to the main game and stay there.

[Pscam10]

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The main game at the Bellagio 2-5nl usually sucks. Most of the fish go busto before or shortly after they reach the main table.

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In my opinion, must move games are horrible. The main game is usually stacked to the max, and the only people that survive are the rocks. I was recently in the must move 2/4nl game at the Mandalay Bay. The must move table was great... but then i get moved to the main game. At least six of the players were locals. I left and went across the street to the MGM.

[Rick Nebiolo]

Must move is OK if used judiciously and intelligently for certain games only (usually a specialty game where the players come for that game only) and taken off as soon as a new game has a little bit of a board. But many clubs over-use must moves, moving players who are happy where they are, forcing them to rack up where they often decide to go to the cage and out the door instead of to the protected games.

Worst/best example of overused must move is the "chained must move" that never comes off, where players are forced to move from the newest game (usually consisting of action fun players) to the oldest game, (usually consisting of stuck, angry, joyless, nits). The Bike started this on their 20/40 stud/8 game several years back. I believe this was done in response to a complaint from a joyless daytime nit who's early starting game broke ten hours or so after it started when the original must move (that protected several games) broke leaving no must move *. At the time the Bike was the 20/40 stud/8 capital of the world, I remember a long stretch were the club used to get four and sometimes five stud/8 games. Now they are down to one or two games, and I've seen no game on the weekend at times. Hollywood Park also went to chained must moves on their 15/30 and 20/40 a few years back when they usually went three deep on each, lately the first 20/40 often doesn't even start until late in the afternoon. Meanwhile Commerce has always taken off must moves as soon as possible, they continue to have an ocean of games at 20/40 and 40/80 limit holdem.

The main advantage of having no must move or taking it off ASAP is that when games start to break later in the evening, it's the worse games that usually break first, making the games that remain generally better. The disadvantage is that you have to put some thought as to how to handle the complaints of nits who can't understand why protection of their first starting game shouldn't last forever and has the same level of protection as a US Treasury Bond.

There are all sorts of ways to implement must moves minimally, intelligently, judiciously, and in a way that it doesn't kill games, but I've got to go and this would be a topic that could be my first 2+2 magazine article [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

OTOH, I may write a bit more after I do laundry and cleaning for another household, clean my apartment, get packed for Vegas, and spend some quality time with my gf, but don't count on it.

~ Rick

* If you insist on always maintaining one must move protecting older games, you don't need to chain. If the must move game breaks, you can draw for a new must move list in the second newest game and so on. This was done in the $300 NL game at Hawaiian Gardens for at least a year or two and I never saw a problem with it.

PS You also can implement a policy where you don't move a player from the shorter must move game unless there are two open seats in a main game.

PPS You also can make it more of a volunteer system, where a player isn't moved unless he wants do. If two people want to move, take the one higher on the list, if no one wants to move take the player from the board or from the bottom of the list.

PPPS You hit a nerve, but I really do gotta go. I only had time for a "one cup of coffee" post [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

~ Rick

[Howard Beale]

Last trip playing 15-30 at Wynn there were 2 must-moves into the main game. Both of those games were very good but the main game was an old-style LV rockfest. It seemed to me that the recreational players that I'd like to play against, the ones with a couple of hours to play and with a limited amount of money to play with, were done with poker for the day way before they got called to the main game. Sure enough, when I asked after half and hour how many of the players in the main game were locals most of the table raised their hands. I told them that they were shortsighted to support a must-move system and the reasons against it but I knew they wouldn't listen. IIRC, Bellagio doesn't use a must-move in their 15-30 game (correct me if I'm wrong) and that's where I'll play on my next visit.