S8/b - is it time to say uncle? - Page 2

adanthar · #1 07-25-2007, 02:55 PM

Yeah, okay, but...so what? He can show you the other aces in the hole and it's totally irrelevant?

Rush17 · #2 07-26-2007, 12:49 AM

Hi TT:

This is an automatic fold on 5th street.

It's very easy to get caught up in a hand, especially in hi/lo. I have been in your position soooo many times but you need to step back and take a look at the hand (his and yours) and the real worth($) of your hand/draw against your opponents hand and how he is most likey going to play his hand throughout its course.

You are HU against an opponent who you read for at least a big pair. You have nothing but a low draw with NO draw for high. If you caught a much better/fitting card on 4th, you might want to call 5th, but right now, you are at best playing this hand just to get your money back. And now that you have called 5th, you are trapped again to call 6th because of the double draw that you picked up.

When playing HU pots in stud8, it's kinda like a "card-catching contest", but I'm being totally serious in the grand scheme of things. Look at your board...look at who your HU opponent is (ie; he's very aggressive and won't give free cards)...then ask yourself why you're calling a big bet on 5th after you totally broke off. Keep in mind, that your 4th street card is not as good as it may appear, especially HU. And what makes matters even worse, even if he was trying to represent a high hand and really started out with a low draw...you can't even beat his AQ and we're already on 6th street!

Bottom line: don't play the hand any further than need be (which will usually be once the big bet arrives)when there stands too good a chance that most of the time you will only get your money back. You are looking to scoop pots when you are HU, nothing more, nothing less. Of course sometimes hands/draws fizzle out, and knowing when to put them out is key. For me, it's a fold on 5th.

I do agree with you on not raising 4th street against this particular opponent, though. It's not as if you picked up some monster draw or anything...the pot needs to be kept small so you'll have no problem abandoning your cards if you fail to catch good on 5th, and that really needs to be thought about before we go ahead and spew chips into the pot, especially against an aggro opponent.

Andy B · #3 07-26-2007, 01:36 AM

Pot's too big to consider folding fifth. TT is one card away from a free-roll, and it's not like he's drawing completely dead for high or anything.

Micturition Man · #4 07-26-2007, 04:18 AM

This thread is turning into a sick joke.

Zeldark · #5 07-26-2007, 08:11 AM

Smooth call to the low and the flush, maybe both.

bugstud · #6 07-26-2007, 03:06 PM

my head is asploding here.

*TT* · #7 07-26-2007, 06:37 PM

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my head is asploding here.

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makes two of us. I think when i posted this thread the answers came from the secret evil-stud forum on the other side of the universe.

Rush17 · #8 07-26-2007, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

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I think when i posted this thread the answers came from the secret evil-stud forum on the other side of the universe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I advocated a fold on 5th street. But apparently you think that was bad advice, correct?

The object of the game is to SCOOP, not to break dead even on the hand.

Drawing to a 7 w/no straight/flush draw when you're HU against an obvious high hand and who also won't give ANY free cards is not the ideal approach to stud8. Had your HU opponent had different tendencies and you thought you could take him off of his hand, then yes, calling 5th and/or raising 4th has a lot more merit...AND value. As it stands, though, your call on 5th is really not that swift. You could find better spots is all that I'm suggesting.

If the hand was multiway and you felt that you were either the only one going low or if you had the best low draw, then yes, a call on 5th would be correct (re: profitable)

Now, others on here gave you different opinions: some said they would raise 4th while others said to just call. You then came back and pretty much disagreed with everyone. Well, what answer(s) were you hoping to receive, then? I mean, if you're going to call 5th with complete certainty and anticipation (as if you held some BIG draw), why are you unsure about what to do on 6th? It's obvious that you have to call now that you've picked up the double draw. If/when you blank out on the river, you fold.

And you're head hurts? wow.

*TT* · #9 07-26-2007, 10:41 PM

OK everyone... time to break out your equity sims. Blumpkin and I have been AIMing back and forth, the hand is even more complex than I anticipated.

1) I am 90% positive the villain has TT,JJ,KK,Ax, or the highly unlikely QQ in the hole.

2) If the villain holds AA in the hole I am a dog on 4th street, anything else within his range including QQ and its its nearly split equity.

3) If the villain holds AA in the hole then I am a huge dog on 5th.

How about some street by street analysis guys to back up your beliefs? Doings some weighted outs calculations might be necessary, this one is gonna be a pain.

adanthar - Blumpkin normally raises 4th to inflate the size of the pot and take the position lead, but he knows its essentially an equity wash and is OK with a call based on my read. I am on the fence now because the hand has me so baffled.

adanthar · #10 07-26-2007, 11:07 PM

yeah, but what's any of that have to do with folding sixth? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I mean, if not for the title, I'd assume you wanted to sexy bluff raise, heh (seems like a bad idea but it's not totally out of the question...)

so yeah, am I just reading the title wrong?