Theory Post:: Post our leaks between money bubble / final table

[levAA]

these are stats, which you get by hand-analysis programms (e.g. pocker tracker)

the first number stands for "voluntarily put $ in pot" = the hands you play active without the hands where you are in the BB and check

the second number stands for "preflop raises" the number in % you raised preflop

there sometimes be a third number, which stands for "total aggression postflop" - % where you bet or raised postflop

so 30/25 is a loose/aggressive player
40/5 is a very loose/passive player

[BarryLyndon]

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But I have seen guys accumulate by moving to a 40/5 type of style.

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Could you please explain what a "40/5 type of style" is?

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Read up on pokertracker / HUD data. Read the FAQs in the NL cash games (?) for an explanation of what this stuff means. To be brief, though I highly encourage findings on your own:

X / Y where X = percentage of hands you are in the pot, Y = open raise percentage.

So, when someone says "I'm stuck at 30/25," he is saying that he is open raising 25% of the time. He's saying he's "stuck" because he is repeating instances of aggression where he should slow down a little. What 40/5 advocates is that you raise less but you get involved in a few more small pots so you can play flops against weaker opponents / lesser stacks and mess around with them. It's an interesting philosophy which I may experiment with.

Barry

[Jon_AK]

speaking of poker tracker, do you ppl use it for every tournamenet to get reads on people? I am on the trial version currently but definatly plan on purchasing it. I don't really have a complete understanding on the program or what the ratios mean etc, but I imagine it could be an EXTREMELY beneficial tool when it comes to short stack poker after the bubble/before the final table... yes?

[kurtkatt]

yeah, coupled with Pa hud its very nice to get their stats right on the table. obv focusing 100% is way better but if u play a lot of tables etc it can help out a lot to have their stats easily visible.

[Sherman]

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But I have seen guys accumulate by moving to a 40/5 type of style.

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Could you please explain what a "40/5 type of style" is?

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????? How does someone "accumulate" by playing this style??

If you see people playing this way and accumulating, you are witnessing a good run of cards or some very weak/tight post flop play against him.

40/5 is a terrible way to accumulate IMO. Especially late near the bubbles. A better way to accumulate would be 50/40. Not saying that this is optimal, but 40/5 is just spewing IMO.

[BAK]

Thank you LevAA and BarryLyndon. Very helpful!

[BarryLyndon]

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But I have seen guys accumulate by moving to a 40/5 type of style.

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Could you please explain what a "40/5 type of style" is?

[/ QUOTE ]

????? How does someone "accumulate" by playing this style??

If you see people playing this way and accumulating, you are witnessing a good run of cards or some very weak/tight post flop play against him.

40/5 is a terrible way to accumulate IMO. Especially late near the bubbles. A better way to accumulate would be 50/40. Not saying that this is optimal, but 40/5 is just spewing IMO.

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lol, good point, I won't be experimenting with this style. I just need to find a better aggression frequency, because I'm tired of committing myself to calls with QJs and 109s.

Barry

[Sherman]

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[ QUOTE ]
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But I have seen guys accumulate by moving to a 40/5 type of style.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please explain what a "40/5 type of style" is?

[/ QUOTE ]

????? How does someone "accumulate" by playing this style??

If you see people playing this way and accumulating, you are witnessing a good run of cards or some very weak/tight post flop play against him.

40/5 is a terrible way to accumulate IMO. Especially late near the bubbles. A better way to accumulate would be 50/40. Not saying that this is optimal, but 40/5 is just spewing IMO.

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lol, good point, I won't be experimenting with this style. I just need to find a better aggression frequency, because I'm tired of committing myself to calls with QJs and 109s.

Barry

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What I do is this:

Look for spots where you will have to/won't have to committ yourself. And decide PF.

For example, I might say this: "Ok, I'll raise to 1100 here and if player's A,B,C raise, I'll shove/call. If player D raises I'll fold. Anyhow, I adjust my raise size depending on whether I want to be committed or not and by whom. If I don't mind being committed, I might raise a bit more to price myself in on a call and increase FE. If I don't want to be committed, I'll raise a bit smaller and happily fold if re-raised.

Anyhow, I make my decision PF. Do I wanted to be committed? To whom will I committ? To whom will I fold? If I can't decide, it is often best to fold to avoid a tough decision.

[kurtkatt]

might try and cut down on steals with that stacksize also, esp when stacks behind look like that.

[bogey1]

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What I do is this:

Look for spots where you will have to/won't have to committ yourself. And decide PF.

...

Anyhow, I make my decision PF. Do I wanted to be committed? To whom will I committ? To whom will I fold? If I can't decide, it is often best to fold to avoid a tough decision.

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Ok, this was an extremely cool post to see by a respected poster. I made a similar post in a different thread about sizing preflop bets to manipulate pot committment. Nice to see some validation that the idea doesn't suck.

Re: leaks. I'm not really an MTT person, but one thought comes to mind. It's been noted in multiple books that most profit comes when you're playing counter to the table. Pre-bubble this means aggro to their tight. If post bubble people are being really aggro (because they have chips or were happy to make the money) then it seems you'd play good cards really fast and hope to avoid suckouts.