Maniacs

[ChuckyB]

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Rolf Slotboom's book has a big section on this. His advice is to buy in short, sit on the maniac's <u>right</u>

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the problem with this is maniac will probably get up and leave once you limp r/r once.

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???

[Ricky_Bobby]

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Rolf Slotboom's book has a big section on this. His advice is to buy in short, sit on the maniac's <u>right</u>, and play a strictly limp/re-raise style. And do your best to get it all in pre-flop when you have a better hand than the maniacs range (aces, kings, nice double-suited rundowns, suited broadways, etc.)

If you're going to buy in full, don't sit to his right. Find a seat a few spots downstream so you can take advantage and isolate him. Let him hang himself when he has good hands.

In "Ace on the River" Barry Greenstein says the common response to a maniac is to tighten up. Greenstein says the change you should make is to loosen up and re-raise more frequently.

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Honest question: As part of this strategy do you stand up as soon as you reach a certain threshold of BB?

Do you then quit or do you seek out another table and reload with a short stack?

It seems this advice would lead one to either quit as soon as he made a small profit or rat-hole if he wished to continue.

[wazz]

SHAKENBAKE

[Ricky_Bobby]

I love it. It rhymes, they're both verbs...

[ChuckyB]

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Honest question: As part of this strategy do you stand up as soon as you reach a certain threshold of BB?

Do you then quit or do you seek out another table and reload with a short stack?

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When I started with this a couple of weeks ago, I would sit out when I ran my $20 (on .50/1.00) up to about $60. At the time I didn't feel comfortable in PLO with that much money on the table among bigger stacks. $60 was probably 25% of my online bankroll at the time (but a negligible portion of my total bankroll).

Now I'll usually keep going with a stack of $60-$70 even with three or four tables open. I have a handle on who I'm playing and I'm better equipped strategically to play that deep (though it's not really 'deep' at all).

When I'm uncomfortable with my stack, like a couple nights ago when I more-than-tripled up to $160+ on one table, I played until the blinds came around and I left. That's too much money, relative to my online roll (about 40%), to have on one table. And I know that I tend to lose focus after a big hand. So it's best that I don't risk a lot of money while in that mindset.

In those situations I'll keep playing on my other two tables, or find a new one to add.

Slotboom advises once you get to about 70 BBs there's no real short-stacking advantages left. So if you're going to stay, you should top-up to the max buy-in.

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It seems this advice would lead one to either quit as soon as he made a small profit or rat-hole if he wished to continue.

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"Rat-hole" can be a pretty inflammatory phrase (if HSP and Freddy Deeb have taught us anything), but I know what you're saying.

Stars, for example, requires that you leave the table for at least 30 minutes to be allowed to buy-in for less.

In the time that I'm still at the table after making a big score, everyone has an equal shot at my stack. That's bitten me in the butt on a couple of occasions.

Slotboom's advice means you'd leave the table when you've made a significant profit, relative to your investment...100%, 200%, 700% something like that.


For me, short-stacking is about winning money, bankroll management and preparing for a future of making more money. And so far Slotboom's strategy, while not perfect for the games I've sat in, is effective. There are counters to it, but most people can't figure them out (because most don't care to, like we do here on 2+2).

The goal with Slotboom is to get your money in with the best of it and commit early in the hand so there are no tough decisions after the flop. It allows you to compete with more-skilled players and even the field.

Slotboom spends more than half the book talking about deep-stack strategy. I hope to be able to explore that more fully when the time is right. If I had $1500-$2000 online, I probably would. For now, it's just the times when I triple and quadruple up.

[Ricky_Bobby]

Thanks for the response. I certainly didn't mean to impugn anyone's character and probably should have used a different phrase.

Another serious question, wouldn't you have more fun and learn more (you almost certainly know more than I do btw) by playing 25PLO instead? Or do did you decide you could learn more by playing against better players in a bigger game even on a short stack?

[ChuckyB]

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Thanks for the response. I certainly didn't mean to impugn anyone's character and probably should have used a different phrase.

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Totally cool. No offence taken at all.

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Another serious question, wouldn't you have more fun and learn more (you almost certainly know more than I do btw) by playing 25PLO instead? Or do did you decide you could learn more by playing against better players in a bigger game even on a short stack?

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I've played around with full-stack 25PLO and 50PLO in the past. Actually I've been hardcore into just about every game at some point (PLO/8, LHE, 2-7 TD, Pineapple, Stud, Razz) with varying degrees of success.

I had Slotboom's book on my shelf for some time. I started reading it book after playing in a live 1/2NL mixed game in Edmonton (which was almost exclusively Omaha). After that I put $200 back online and started with 50 &amp; 100 PLO. I had good success at 100 (with 10 short buy-ins) and I was able to weather a pretty nasty downswing at beginning of the month. And there are usually 3 full-ring games going on Stars in the night time. 100 just felt right. Big enough to be exciting and small enough to feel safe.

I have no qualms about moving down to 25PLO when I want to learn even more about post-flop action. As many people can relate, the smaller stakes feel kind of boring at times since my true poker bankroll is about $2000. Hopefully I'll have earned enough to play max buy-in 100 PLO (the full ring games above there are inconsistent on Stars). But I plan to worry about that at another time. Right now I'm in full PLO study mode.

[Gene Paulson]

If my life is for rent and I won't learn to die I deserve what I get because nothing is truly mine~parphrased~, NL is a game beyond such shop keeping I fly the "Jolly Rogers" to that and could make you fall from those economic measures the higher limits are all deep not because of rules but because they are beaten ways. but have fun but don't sail the seas were my priate ship playes among the sharks and riptides.

[ChuckyB]

I have a question that I truly don't know the answer to...

What is the difference between someone who buys into the game for the minimum and someone who buys into an uncapped game for an excessive amount of money so that he can have the table covered? Both can take post-flop play completely out of the equation (though the threat level to a 100-200 BB stack is completely different?)

I hear of a lot of "die shortstackers die" at the higher online levels. And I don't really get it. Everyone's following the rules so what's the problem?

[JanelleBB7]

WTF is with Cash lately.. I can't seem to get people to fold it is like a group freaking conspiracy to stay in every pot.... why do I bother to RAISE preflop? It is so weird it has just been the past week and I am losing at cash every day this week because it is a group free for all in these pots and I can't hit a flop to save my life. THANK god for tournies LOL!!!

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $11.50
UTG+1: $14.55
MP1: $19.05
MP2: $1.65
MP3: $30.20
CO: $22.15
Button: $31.55
SB: $27.55
Janellebb7: $37.90

Pre-flop: (9 players) Janellebb7 is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Janellebb7 raises to $1.85</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($11.2, 6 players)
Janellebb7 checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($11.2, 6 players)
Janellebb7 checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets $0.25</font>, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Janellebb7 calls, UTG folds.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($12.2, 4 players)
Janellebb7 checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets $5.25</font>, 2 folds, Janellebb7 folds.
Uncalled bets: $5.25 returned to MP1.

Results:
Final pot: $12.2