Why Is AC/Libertarianism So Bothersome?

[pvn]

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Hardly. Due to my sovereign right to bear arms, I dropped your ass before you could finish talking.

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Perfect. So you're openly advocating a total free-for-all? Wild west (movie style, of course) here we come!

[ShakeZula06]

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Hardly. Due to my sovereign right to bear arms, I dropped your ass before you could finish talking.

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What if i shoot you first?

[ShakeZula06]

HMK welcome back my man!

[pvn]

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I'm sure that liberals dislike hearing support for a system that denies goods, services and equality to those whom they believe need it more.

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You've been gone too long. No libertarians or ACists here have ever advocated a system that denies goods and services to anyone. But you knew that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[AlexM]

Shake was trying to put a FAQ together, but Iron decided that no post by Shake would be stickied, no matter how necessary to the forum, so it was abandoned.

[AlexM]

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Why do either of these ideologies arouse so much discomfort as to be put to the test at all times?

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The basic idea behind ACism and to a lesser extent libertarianism is that taxation is theft and that theft is immoral. Most people like to believe that what they're doing is "good." In fact, that's the whole idea behind many people's support of stuff like universal health care and the like is that it's a "good" thing. Obviously when people point out that they're using "evil" methods to accomplish their "good" thing, they're going to be more than a little aggitated. People don't like to be shown the negative consequences of their behavior and most people have convinced themselves that taxation isn't even theft at all, despite the fact that it very obviously is, so when it's pointed out to them it makes them very, VERY uncomfortable to have reality poking into their beliefs.

[xorbie]

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Why do either of these ideologies arouse so much discomfort as to be put to the test at all times?

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The basic idea behind ACism and to a lesser extent libertarianism is that taxation is theft and that theft is immoral. Most people like to believe that what they're doing is "good." In fact, that's the whole idea behind many people's support of stuff like universal health care and the like is that it's a "good" thing. Obviously when people point out that they're using "evil" methods to accomplish their "good" thing, they're going to be more than a little aggitated. People don't like to be shown the negative consequences of their behavior and most people have convinced themselves that taxation isn't even theft at all, despite the fact that it very obviously is, so when it's pointed out to them it makes them very, VERY uncomfortable to have reality poking into their beliefs.

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Again, this is the sort of thing that makes people dislike you folks. You act as if nobody had ever noticed that there is taxation, until ACists finally pointed it out.

The fact that you don't seem to understand is that most people are perfectly fine paying and levying taxes, so it's not really horrific or "evil" or whatever else you'd like to claim it is.

[AlexM]

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The fact that you don't seem to understand is that most people are perfectly fine paying and levying taxes, so it's not really horrific or "evil" or whatever else you'd like to claim it is.

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No, you're missing the point entirely. I know perfectly well that most (at least many anyway) people are fine with it. It's not them that are being tyrannized. A person is entirely capable of being fine with being taxed while still opposing the taxation of those who are unwilling. Hell, I wouldn't mind being taxed if the government were within its Constitutional bounds, and I don't really care much about local taxes, but I would STILL oppose taxation for the evil that it is because there are others, who make up a minority, who are still being oppressed. That's what it's all about. Maybe it's more accurate to say that ACism is about being against the tyranny of the majority than against taxation... Being "fine with paying taxes" doesn't give you the right to tax those who aren't! Opposition to taxation isn't about wanting or not wanting to pay taxes, it's about resisting tyranny.

[xorbie]

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The fact that you don't seem to understand is that most people are perfectly fine paying and levying taxes, so it's not really horrific or "evil" or whatever else you'd like to claim it is.

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No, you're missing the point entirely. I know perfectly well that most (at least many anyway) people are fine with it. It's not them that are being tyrannized. A person is entirely capable of being fine with being taxed while still opposing the taxation of those who are unwilling. Hell, I wouldn't mind being taxed if the government were within its Constitutional bounds, and I don't really care much about local taxes, but I would STILL oppose taxation for the evil that it is because there are others, who make up a minority, who are still being oppressed. That's what it's all about. Maybe it's more accurate to say that ACism is about being against the tyranny of the majority than against taxation... Being "fine with paying taxes" doesn't give you the right to tax those who aren't! Opposition to taxation isn't about wanting or not wanting to pay taxes, it's about resisting tyranny.

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Taxation is, as far as I'm concerned, a far lesser opression (if one can even call it that) than the evils it theoretically sets out to fix. So you may consider it inefficient, but this whole line of argumentation is bound to fail and just makes you sound ridiculous. Apparently you all have no problem with that, so carry on.

[bkholdem]

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The fact that you don't seem to understand is that most people are perfectly fine paying and levying taxes, so it's not really horrific or "evil" or whatever else you'd like to claim it is.

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No, you're missing the point entirely. I know perfectly well that most (at least many anyway) people are fine with it. It's not them that are being tyrannized. A person is entirely capable of being fine with being taxed while still opposing the taxation of those who are unwilling. Hell, I wouldn't mind being taxed if the government were within its Constitutional bounds, and I don't really care much about local taxes, but I would STILL oppose taxation for the evil that it is because there are others, who make up a minority, who are still being oppressed. That's what it's all about. Maybe it's more accurate to say that ACism is about being against the tyranny of the majority than against taxation... Being "fine with paying taxes" doesn't give you the right to tax those who aren't! Opposition to taxation isn't about wanting or not wanting to pay taxes, it's about resisting tyranny.

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Taxation is, as far as I'm concerned, a far lesser opression (if one can even call it that) than the evils it theoretically sets out to fix.

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kinda like the mafia don who sets out to 'fix' the businesses in his neighborhood from their lack of 'protection'. he is theoretically helping them by keeping them safe from harm. and they in turn pay and are greatful. the 'danger' never goes away and the 'theoretical fix' is needed forever. that is government.

If you want to help people government is not the way.