400NL - fold top and bottom two on the flop ?

[aislephive]

We need about 37% equity to get it in here, and against a pretty tight range we're slightly -EV.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

46,530 games 0.005 secs 9,306,000 games/sec

Board: As Kc Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.755% 30.11% 05.64% 14012 2625.00 { AdTs }
Hand 1: 64.245% 58.60% 05.64% 27268 2625.00 { KK+, TT, AKs, AcQc, AcJc, ATs, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, Ac4c, Ac3c, Ac2c, KTs, QJs, AKo, ATo, KTo, QJo }

Add in some other flush draw combinations besides the nut flush draw, stuff like AQ/AJ which will shove a decent amount of the time, as well as other different draws he might overplay this is definitely a call. Perhaps not as +EV as I thought a call would be, but +EV nonetheless.

[Teh1337zor]

ok i see

[Mat]

I like your hand range aislephive, so with this range, starting from wich depth a fold becomes acceptable ? I guess 125BB is the limit because over that we'll need more than 37% of equity.

[FireStorm]

calling quickly here is abhorrently horrendous. Please do not do this. If you do make easy calls in these spots, please switch over from online to live play and come sit in my games. What are we beating here? The above example which includes almost all flush draws is good, but IMO he never had KTs/KTo here, and rarely has the other AT's.

[Bullitos]

Just call the flop.

[CBass1724]

[ QUOTE ]
Just call the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
yes

[DrMagic]

Yeah I wouldn't raise the flop here, esp if I'm folding to a shove. Thats just horrible. As played I would call, but I would still hate it.

[Janis N.]

I think this is an extremely close call. 16% PFR raising from the CO won't have much more in his range than what aislephive has and may not even always raise the suited aces and stuff like KTo

It's not a snap-call, more like decision based on how the games are playing there at those stakes (e.g., how much playing back at cbets is going on to justify him shoving AQ and so forth).

[aislephive]

A 20/16 player on the CO is almost definitely opening all decent suited connectors, all suited aces, and almost for sure KT.

[ QUOTE ]
calling quickly here is abhorrently horrendous. Please do not do this. If you do make easy calls in these spots, please switch over from online to live play and come sit in my games. What are we beating here? The above example which includes almost all flush draws is good, but IMO he never had KTs/KTo here, and rarely has the other AT's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh, if he gets to the flop with two pair, he is almost definitely shoving over our raise. And no, I didn't include nearly all flush draws. I included only the nut flush draw.

[88jayhawks]

hypothetically speaking-

if you just call the flop, what do we do when:

leads the turn for 2/3 pot?

he checks the turn?