** THE OFFICE DISCUSSION THREAD - THE UK AND AMERICAN VERSIONS ***

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]


One thing I love about the UK series is it's a shade more subtle than the US version. I'm sure people could switch this on and watch it for some time without realising it's a comedy not a documentary, but I think you'd catch on a lot faster watching the US version.



[/ QUOTE ]

The two shows are so different. The UK series has a completely realistic feel and look to it, quite a few shades more subtle if you ask me! That's why I like it so much. I prefer the way it's filmed -- the angle of the shots, and the spaciousness of the office make it feel less like a set and more like a documentary.

David Brent makes me cringe. Oh my god. Sooo inapropriate. Is this kind of talk really standard in an English office? lol. The opening scene where he's on the phone to that guy and asks him if his wife has left yet? yikes. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Also, that joke he makes to Dawn right at the beginning...geez. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] (know which one, db?)


Tim and Gareth are hilarious. They remind me of 2 brothers who can't stand each other. I think the actor who plays Gareth is one of the best I've ever seen in any comedy. That guy is awesome. He is so real. LMAO at him at the staff meeting when he wanted to hear the news first and then gives David Brent his permission to continue. Too funny.

I think Gareth >>>>> Dwight!



p.s. You're right about Dawn. She is more complex than Pam. Pam is just a good girl whereas Dawn has issues. Oh, and I was going to copy a screen shot of her trying to eat while David Brent is confiding in her about his testicle problem. I couldn't figure out how to do it though [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Kimbell175113]

I remember on one of the dvd commentaries Gervais and Merchant are discussing a plot point for an episode, and it's such an obvious tv thing. I can't remember at the moment, but it's some totally standard sitcom setup for later, where something is emphasized for no other reason than because it helps the writers get around a later problem.

And once I'd heard that, I saw it clearly, but it's a testament to the show (the acting, mostly, imo) that they can get away with that and still make it seem naturalistic and somehow different than all the other scripted tv.

[Taso]

I thought the first episode of the US version comes out on Sept. 27th?

[[Phill]]

Ill join in here if yall dont mind - ive never seen the US version barring the odd snippet here and there, but i really loved the UK version and i like the idea of watching the shows in parralel like this.

The US version will struggle to live up to my love of the UK version i feel, for pure cringeworthy accurate portrayal of recognisable and real characters the Office ruled all.

Ill give them a watch tonight and try and give the US version a fair shout, but it wont be easy.

[diebitter]

If any episode changes your mind, episode 2, 'Diversity Day' will be it. Which we're discussing on Friday 21st btw.

Bear up through episode 1, it's so similar to the UK ep 1, you'll probably cringe.

[katyseagull]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought the first episode of the US version comes out on Sept. 27th?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess people who stumble on this thread might be a little confused. We decided to go back and watch the first season of both UK and US series. I know you're probably wondering why. We just love them so much [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

I think it's interesting that some people insist the US version is better than the UK version. Both are actually very good.

[diebitter]

EPISODES 2

THE OFFICE (UK): Work Experience
THE OFFICE (US): Diversity Day


Cliff notes fast review of both episodes: LOLOL, HAHAHAHAHA!


1) Work Experience

Summary: David Brent is under pressure to make changes given the impending downsizing, but steadfastly refuses to do anything serious about it. In addition, some altered porn arrives with David's face inserted, and he gets Gareth investigating who the culprit is.


This is a really terrific episode, where David both refuses to tow the line by using whatever evasive tactics he can dream up including bald-faced lies and dumb managementspeak. Not only that, he insists on having the last word on everything his boss, Jennifer, says on the matter. How she doesn't just fire him, I'll never know. Hilarious.

In addition, we have Gareth investigating the porn incident, and bringing a new level to the word 'clueless'. He's wearing what looks like a shoulder holster for his mobile phone too, lol.

A really good episode, an absolute joy, and one which demonstrates why The Office is held in such high regard.

Some excerpts:


[Jennifer has just been insulted in the warehouse by the warehouse crew]
Jennifer Taylor-Clark: I just can't believe their total lack of respect.
David Brent: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not only did they undermine you in an authoritative sense, but they left an image in my mind of you naked on all fours literally being done doggy style.



Gareth: There's a saying, "Softly Softly, catchee monkey". I could catch a monkey. If I was starving I could. I'd make poison darts out of the poison of the deadly frogs. One milligram of that poison can kill a monkey. Or a man. Prick yourself and you'd be dead within a day. Or longer. Different frogs, different times.


David Brent: Well. I'm angry. And not because I'm in it, but because it degrades women, which I hate. And the culprit, whoever he is, is in this room. Or she, it could be a woman. Women are as filthy as men. Not naming any names - I don't know any - but women... are... dirty.


========
2) Diversity Day

Here, a diversity trainer comes in for an hour, and it turns out due to Michael Scott doing a copy of a Chris Rock monologue that someone complained about. Michael just can't stand to not be in the limelight here, so arranges his own session of diversity training, where he ends up being deeply offensive and getting slapped - which he hails as a breakthrough.


This episode is very funny also, and these pair highlight some of the main differences between the series. The UK version is way more subtle, and actually more rude. There's no shying away from bad language and gags in the UK one, whilst the American one is more wholesome in that respect. What they do do well in the American one is use the lack of subtelty to really hammer home the stupid clowning of Scott.

We're still not seeing either Jim or Pam as really rounded characters yet, but their relationship is handled very well, with the lightest of touches and occurences, I think.

Dwight is now blossoming, and is pretty hilarious. Dwight's just an awesome comic creation, and here's his first appearance where we see DWight in full flow.

Some tasters:

[Michael to a female Indian employee who has just returned to the meeting cold]
Micheal: BUY MY GOOGY-GOOGY. BUY MY GOOGY-GOOGY!
[she slaps Michael]



Pam Beesley: [during a Diversity Day excerise, Dwight has been appointed Chinese without knowing what race he has been assigned] Based on stereotypes that are completely untrue, you may be a bad driver.
Dwight Schrute: Oh, man! Am I a woman?


Mr. Brown: Now this is a simple acronym: H.E.R.O. At Diversity, we believe it's very easy to be a hero. All you need are: Honesty, Empathy, Respect, and Open-mindedness.
Dwight Schrute: Excuse me, I'm sorry, but that's not all it takes to be a hero.
Mr. Brown: Okay well, what is a hero to you?
Dwight Schrute: A hero kills people, people that wish him harm. A hero is part human and part supernatural. A hero is born out of a childhood trauma, or out of a disaster, and must be avenged.
Mr. Brown: Uh, okay, you're thinking of a superhero.

[Michaelson]

I don't really have the inclination to go through and watch both series back to back at the moment. I hope it's okay to share some general thoughts about what I perceive to be the strengths and weaknesses of each, though.

From the outset I should mention that I think the UK version of The Office is probably one of the best things ever produced for television. I put it right up there with shows like The Sopranos, The Wire, Scales of Justice (Australian), Yes Prime/Minister, Fawlty Towers etc in the top tier of small screen productions (I've probably left heaps off that list, but I'm just illustrating a point). So with that said, I was never particularly receptive to the idea of an American remake because, frankly, I've seen enough watered down American adaptations to last me a lifetime, and I'm still only young.

So anyway, I downloaded the US version when it was released and was pretty much underwhelmed. I HATED the first episode, and thought the others were pretty bad as well (I seem to remember quite enjoying one episode with a basketball game, though). The Diversity Day episode, as well, left a really bad taste in my mouth. It all just seemed ridiculously over the top to me, and I pretty much couldn't handle it.

Anyway, so I didn't return to it until earlier this year when I caught a clip on tv and thought it looked better than I remember. I bought the second season on DVD and went through it all quite quickly, and then I followed season 3 online and enjoyed that greatly. I certainly underestimated it first time round (though I still don't think it holds a candle to the UK version).

The biggest accomplishment of the US version, I think, was to get the core of the show right, namely Jim and Pam. Their story is spot on and handled beautifully, with both actors terrific in their roles as well. I love Pam as much as I did Dawn, and Jim is just as much of a stand up guy as Tim. I didn't expect them to nail this as well as they did. The one criticism I might have in this respect is that Jim seems a little too perfect. One of the great things about Tim and Dawn was that they were so human and made so many mistakes around each other. To some extent this applies to Pam as well. In the UK version Dawn is in a relationship but also sends a lot of signals Tim's way only to rebuff his advances over and over, whereas Pam always seems to exude this thing of "If only I wasn't engaged!" (I dunno, maybe that's just me). Similarly, with Tim, you get the feeling he's a really great guy but never likely to get his affairs in order. He flirts with the idea of promotion as well as leaving for university but in the end achieves neither. He also (and this is a UK version spoiler for those who haven't seen it) has given up on pursuing Dawn by the time they finally get together (though I guess he did have a fair crack earlier, and by the Christmas party they're living in different countries, so maybe that's unfair).

Anyway, that's all a rambly way of saying that Tim and Dawn are perhaps a bit more human than Pam and Jim, but at any rate the US version pretty much hit a home run with that relationship I think.

Another thing the US version did which is unusual for US sitcoms (even the good ones) is to have the episodes build on what has been before, rather than each one being an isolated quirky scenario where it's like the rest of the season never happened. The Indian girl and Ryan, Angela and Dwight... more generally, the dynamics between the more peripheral office workers develops nicely from week to week.

However, the characters around the edges just aren't as good in my opinion as they were in the UK version. I just don't like Kevin or that leacherous guy (his name has slipped my mind) very much and I don't find them very entertaining, but I know that I'm well and truly in the minority there. I find Stanley's schtick kind of annoying as well. Anyway, that's not a blanket statement, and there are some lesser characters who I love (Toby, Karen, Andy for instance). IMO, though, they can't compete with the Og Monster, the IT guy, Finchy, the pregnant woman in the Christmas special, the woman who "likes blacks" and many others in the UK version.

Anyway, those are just some general thoughts and I have a lot more, but right now I'm heading out for some golf so i might come back and share some more thoughts later.

[Kimbell175113]

Tim was by far my favorite part of Gervais's Office. I love him, I understand him, and I am terrified of becoming him. It's almost as though he hates himself, and he's kinda right; there's so much wasted potential, and he knows he's gonna waste even more... and yet he's great and funny and I want to be his friend. Such a great character.

Jim is certainly not boring, either, but I never got the same feeling from him. Jim is more clearly a 'good person' at heart, and the whole US series is just a little bit less misanthropic in general, which makes it less effective to someone who saw the UK series first, imo.

[detruncate]

Great comedy is dangerous. Its essence is the discomfort and insecurity at the heart of the human condition, and it necessarily walks a fine line between insight and insult. An inherently difficult exercise made even more so given how widely the location of this line varies from person to person.

While there's a lot to like about the US version, what it boils down to for me is that the UK version bites while the US version too often barely nibbles. It lacks the depth and subtlety of the UK version, which leaves it feeling flat. Or flatter than I'd like, anyway. I still think it's a reasonably good show (primarily because of the Jim and Pam stuff), but I'm often distracted by the over-the-top delivery that Steve Carell in particular brings to the table to really get excited about it.

The first episode of the US version made me cringe in an entirely different and not nearly as interesting way as the UK one. I was ready to write the show off as another failed adaptation of a popular UK show. They managed to kill almost everything I liked about the UK version, and weren't able to add anything interesting of their own given that they were using the same script. Thank Jeebus they quickly set about finding their own way episode 2 onward because it would have been a trainwreck otherwise.