River decision in a big pot

[leo doc]

I fear we may be distracting from OP's point with a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" argument. You are correct in that HEFAP (pg 162) says to fold AJo after an UTG limp with players to act behind you. But, that's not OP's situation. He's got AJo after 3 limpers and the BTN. Furthermore, pg 161 of HEFAP says that if you're holding AQo OTB (admittedly not AJo- but close enuf for government work) and the flop comes T62(r) and it's checked to you, "You should bet virtually every time." That's why I don't get your flop check with respect to OP's post.

BTW: I agree that HEFAP is simply chalked-full of contradictory/bad advice.

EDIT: With respect to my original AJo/HEFAPs post, I was referring to what the author's said to do with the hand in MP, with or without limpers, and not in a blind steal situation.

[surfdoc]

[ QUOTE ]
I fear we may be distracting from OP's point with a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" argument. You are correct in that HEFAP (pg 162) says to fold AJo after an UTG limp with players to act behind you. But, that's not OP's situation. He's got AJo after 3 limpers and the BTN. Furthermore, pg 161 of HEFAP says that if you're holding AQo OTB (admittedly not AJo- but close enuf for government work) and the flop comes T62(r) and it's checked to you, "You should bet virtually every time." That's why I don't get your flop check with respect to OP's post.

BTW: I agree that HEFAP is simply chalked-full of contradictory/bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know that I would go so far as to say that is is chalked-full of bad advice. The games we play in now are playing differently then the games were played when this was written. BTW, when this AQo "bet virtually everytime" comment was written the situation was also different. He recommended and had overlimped AQo which is actually reasonable but highly controversial in todays games.

[cgrohman]

I was thinking the traditional situation where you are is reaosnably late position, th elimpers are weak and limp with a wide variety of hands (87, QJ, etc.) and the raise will likely eliminate all players behind you and give you position for the rest of the hand.

[cgrohman]

Also, HEFAP assumes that the UTG player is playing Group 1 or 2 hands which just isn't the case most of the time.

[Vehn]

hefap is garbage

I raise this up all day your equity & domination crushes your opponents ranges.

[leo doc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fear we may be distracting from OP's point with a "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" argument. You are correct in that HEFAP (pg 162) says to fold AJo after an UTG limp with players to act behind you. But, that's not OP's situation. He's got AJo after 3 limpers and the BTN. Furthermore, pg 161 of HEFAP says that if you're holding AQo OTB (admittedly not AJo- but close enuf for government work) and the flop comes T62(r) and it's checked to you, "You should bet virtually every time." That's why I don't get your flop check with respect to OP's post.

BTW: I agree that HEFAP is simply chalked-full of contradictory/bad advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know that I would go so far as to say that is is chalked-full of bad advice. The games we play in now are playing differently then the games were played when this was written. BTW, when this AQo "bet virtually everytime" comment was written the situation was also different. He recommended and had overlimped AQo which is actually reasonable but highly controversial in todays games.

[/ QUOTE ]
My esteemed collegue is spot-on. (Not that I'm surprised, btw.) I should have stated that is is chalked-full of "controversial" advice, given today's games.

And that, my friend, is why I need for you to coach me!

[cowboy billy]

dammit, I knew this was gonna happen and wanted to add a comment in my OP that I didn't want to get into a pre flop discussion, but obv I forgot bc I was running short in time

it's cool either way, raising or limping, it doesn't really matter imo, it's a preference thing and I like rraising so that's what I do

now, let us redirect the discussion to the river decision, which is why I posted the hand

if you guys want to get into the raise or call AJo otb discussion, plz open up a new thread

[Vehn]

the river decision is not close at all, big pot don't fold.

[cowboy billy]

plz tell me why it's not "not close at all"

as is, your comment is empty

if I were to call every time on the river when the pot is >10bb I'd suck at pkr

[Vehn]

lol