Why M is Overrated

[locutus2002]

I totally agree with this poster.

The most important thing about your stack is your FE which is most easily counted by BB.

M varies from BB most significantly in a tournament with relatively large antes (hence fast structures) (such as WPT) which is not offered by any of the major online poker sites.

[Bakes]

I think FE is more accurately represented by the pot odds that your opponents are getting to call your push (raise), which is more easily calculated using M than "eyeballing" how many big blinds your raise is.

If someone open-pushes into my big blind from the SB, I will calculate the pot odds and my stack rather than counting the number of big blinds the push is.

[Art Vandelay]

M, BB, it's all just stupid math. Looking into someone's soul is what makes a player.

[ZBTHorton]

[ QUOTE ]
I totally agree with this poster.

The most important thing about your stack is your FE which is most easily counted by BB.



[/ QUOTE ]

The question isn't how it can most "easily" be computed, we are trying to obtain a "complete" analysis.

The concept of FE is based on pot odds. Pot odds cannot completely be computed without factoring in any applicable antes. This is very simple. Why would you want to calculate your BB's if they are a non issue? M is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more important.

[NoahSD]

M is all that matters when considering how much stealing the blinds + antes earns you.

M is the only thing that matters when considering what pot odds everyone but the SB and BB will be getting on a push and how much you'll earn if you get called and win by one of these people.

Both M and number of BBs matter when considering these things for SB and BB.

[RichC.]

[ QUOTE ]
M is important because the antes are constantly whittling away your stack. You need to pick up one pot every round to stay afloat.

Not taking the antes into consideration is a big mistake. If you don't, you will probably let your stack get whittled shorter than you should.

I mean... this is silly. Not factoring in the antes is a fundamental mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto

[diesel13]

Blasphemer [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[A_PLUS]

This thread is pointless. Unless you are in a situation where you are very short, 90% of the time, the antes wont cause the BB to call due to 'pot-odds' correctly or incorrectly. However, they do effect how large of a % you add to your stack, meaning antes make open pushing correct much more often.

Who cares how you name it, it all comes down to how many chips you win when they fold and how often they call.

[morphball]

You're getting flamed a bit, but I agree with you to an extent.

FE does comes from the size of your stack. It also has to do with the range your opponents put you on, and that's determined by your M, or effective M at short table.

If your M or effective M is 10, that means you have 90 to 100 hands left if blinds never increase, so say 40-50 hands if blinds are a reasonable length. So when you're not desperate, your opponents will hopefully say/think, "well 14BB (or what ever the M comes to is big chunk of my stack) and his M (or the number of hands he has left) is high enough that there is a good chance my ATo ain't good because he should only be raising 99+, AJ/AQ/AK.

Ranges are hypothethicals only...

[Small Stakes]

- In regards to a few of the responses. If "M" and # of BB's is essentially the same thing, then why was "M" considered such a novel idea when Harrington's book came out? It seems a lot of people swear by "M" lately.

- At 200-400 w/ 50 ante (total 1100) in the pot, I am suggesting you have more folding equity than with 400-800 blinds, total 1200 in pot.
The BB certainly considers pot odds, but their odds will go down if they are calling a bigger amount to win X. Also, the BB will consider how this will effect their folding equity in the future and possibly be more likely to fold.

BTW: I expected to get flamed. My overall point, is that folding equity should be your main consideration and this can be better gauged by # of Big Blinds.