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#11
10-23-2007, 11:03 AM
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Re: An ethical question
[ QUOTE ]
Is it allowed to type in 'AA' and go all-in? ..... But is it unethical? Tel. [/ QUOTE ] One, this is Home Poker, not The Zoo Second, it's much more STUPID than unethical. Why are you playing poker, again- to not lose? 
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#12
10-23-2007, 12:51 PM
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Re: An ethical question
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I got the wrong forum. It is of course online poker. [/ QUOTE ] You see the bit where it says Home Poker? That doesn't mean poker you play from home, it means home games, with live opponents. [ QUOTE ] Collusion? You cannot be serious. 'Collusion - cooperation for mutual benefit'. Howcome this falls in that category? [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you that this is very minor, but where's the line? Let's say your buddy is sitting to your left, you say AA, now suddenly that guy has more information and can fold. That's not fair to everybody else. Even if it's not your buddy, it's not fair to give that person more information than most expect to be revealed throughout the course of a hand. So yeah, with AA you have the preflop nuts, and aren't killing anybody's action (except your own), but what if you start doing this with AK? Now you've killed action of someone with AA vs AQ. Etc. It's a slippery slope. Besides, it's a rather big weakness to want to control a pot in this manner. To stop yourself from doing this is to force yourself to play better. So stop it.
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#14
10-23-2007, 03:20 PM
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Re: An ethical question
[ QUOTE ]
Is it, however, ok to lie and say you have aces when you don't and not ok to say you have them when you do? [/ QUOTE ] No, not really. In live poker, you can't say what your hand is. If you say you have AA and you do, it's wrong. If you say you have AA and don't, it's still wrong because then, assuming you are "following the rule", logically you must be lying, therefore you are truthfully saying that you do not have AA, which is against the rules.
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#15
10-23-2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: An ethical question
[ QUOTE ]
I would really like an answer from someone who knows for sure and I sure as h... don't want to get banned for telling the truth. [/ QUOTE ] I know: 1. In tournaments that follow TDA rules, telling your actual cards is a violation of rules subject to penalty. 2. In other tournaments, the rules may vary according to the house. It is, however, generally considered against the rules to tell your cards. Lie about them all you want. 3. In tournaments, when the tournament is down to just two players left (heads up play), you can expose your cards during action. (Exposing cards any other time makes your hand dead.) 3. In cash games, the same applies with this exception: when the action in a hand is down to heads up, you can expose your cards to the other player. So, yes, it is unethical if for no other reason than it is against the rules. Most online poker sites (or maybe all) won't take any action against you for telling your cards during play unless collusion is suspected.
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#17
10-23-2007, 09:47 PM
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Re: An ethical question
It is both unethical and against the rules. The only time you can talk about your hand (regardless of whether you are lying or not) or talk about another players hand is when you are in the hand and heads up in a cash game. It is also allowed in tournaments when the tournament is down to the last two players.
To show how bad a play like this is, let me give you a very specific scenario. Say you are in a tournament and there are 3 players left. Player 1 has 1000 chips, player 2 has 5000 chips and you have 6000 chips. Player 1 on the button raises and you in the SB say "I have AA" and go all-in. Player 2 folds and Player 1 folds and flips over KK. You just screwed player 2 because there is an 80% chance you would have knocked him out and guaranteed player 2 second place. That's an extreme example but it shows how discussing cards during a hand can affect the outcome of the hand and that affects every player in the tournament, even if they're not at that table.
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#18
10-23-2007, 09:53 PM
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Re: An ethical question
[ QUOTE ]
Collusion? You cannot be serious. 'Collusion - cooperation for mutual benefit'. Howcome this falls in that category? Tel [/ QUOTE ] Players not in the hand want to see other players who are still in the hand to get knocked out. I love folding my trash and then seeing a multiple all-ins and multiple players knocked out of a tourney. That improves my tournament equity. So I sure don't want to see some guy give away his AA hand and cause everyone to fold. That's cheating against me and I certainly don't take kindly to that. So that guy with AA basically teamed up with the other players still with cards and told them to fold and stay in the tournament. That's collusion.
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#19
10-24-2007, 10:32 AM
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Re: An ethical question
I kind of disagree about the collusion aspect there, POF.
He didn't show them he had AA. He wasn't actually saying "I have AA please fold" what he was really saying was "I hope that by saying I have AA you won't really put me on AA, and that you will try to take the pot away from me." In the other example, anyone with KK is calling there (yeah, I know it was just an example). Just because he said he has AA doesn't mean he really has it. Saying you're cards might make your opponent fold, it also might make him call or raise. If players made decisions based entirely on what I say my hand is, I'd be able to win every single hand I'd ever play. It doesn't work like that though.
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#20
10-25-2007, 12:02 AM
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Re: An ethical question
[ QUOTE ]
I kind of disagree about the collusion aspect there, POF. He didn't show them he had AA. He wasn't actually saying "I have AA please fold" what he was really saying was "I hope that by saying I have AA you won't really put me on AA, and that you will try to take the pot away from me." In the other example, anyone with KK is calling there (yeah, I know it was just an example). Just because he said he has AA doesn't mean he really has it. Saying you're cards might make your opponent fold, it also might make him call or raise. If players made decisions based entirely on what I say my hand is, I'd be able to win every single hand I'd ever play. It doesn't work like that though. [/ QUOTE ] I tried to make it clear that whether you are lying or not, it doesn't matter from a rules perspective nor an ethical perspective. I challenge you to do this a live, well-repected tournament in a casino. I also challenge you to do this in a cash game when the pot is multiway. I guarantee that you will be warned not to do it again.
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