A8o vs CC and BB on Kxx flop - Page 2

milesdyson · #11 06-09-2007, 06:19 PM

3 handed = 2 opponents

yourface · #12 06-09-2007, 06:46 PM

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Button's cold calling range is going to include a lot of hands like QJs, Axs, AT, 77, the first two of which you're ahead of and the latter two of which are under significant pressure to fold with a player still to act behind him on this board. The blind has a blind hand and the board ain't that coordinated and the king should prevent loose peels.

I really can't believe that people think this is close; maybe if you're up against 3 opponents it's close but not 2. I think you win immediately well more than 1/6 times and when you don't win immediately you generally have a profitable follow-up on the turn. I feel like I'm in poker bizarro world.

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TJs JQs AT semibluff us a lot and 77 raises for protection a lot too. even if he doesn't semibluff with his gutshots we still fold the best hand a lot on the turn.

it's a crappy spot but I always bet here and I think I take it down or improve to win enough of the time. maybe I don't though, it feels like I get raised most of the time or c/f the turn UI after button peels the flop.

disjunction · #13 06-09-2007, 06:52 PM

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I think you win immediately well more than 1/6 times

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I looked at this once, and you actually don't. But it's close enough that I still bet this.

milesdyson · #14 06-09-2007, 07:17 PM

disjunction,

do you mean you looked at ranges and tried to estimate the chances?

fwiw what range do you give the 30/20 coldcaller. i never coldcall here.

NinaWilliams · #15 06-09-2007, 07:32 PM

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disjunction,

do you mean you looked at ranges and tried to estimate the chances?

fwiw what range do you give the 30/20 coldcaller. i never coldcall here.

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the only hands that a good 30/20 might have here are QJs JTs T9s and maybe 77 IMO. Its more likely that villain isnt good and is calling with like A7s or something, so I think you win this more than 1-6.

unterfish · #16 06-09-2007, 11:45 PM

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If we c-bet this flop against this lineup, do you think we get a fold more than 1 in 6 times?

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We dont need a fold that often. If, for instance, we are up against QJs, it is a value bet for protecting Ace high vs. a gutshot.
I think I would c-bet here.

TheWunderkind · #17 06-09-2007, 11:51 PM

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If we c-bet this flop against this lineup, do you think we get a fold more than 1 in 6 times?

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We dont need a fold that often. If, for instance, we are up against QJs, it is a value bet for protecting Ace high vs. a gutshot.
I think I would c-bet here.

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whats you plan for the Turn? cc hands are like TJs Ts 88 imho...not any of em folds here

unterfish · #18 06-10-2007, 12:04 AM

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If we c-bet this flop against this lineup, do you think we get a fold more than 1 in 6 times?

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We dont need a fold that often. If, for instance, we are up against QJs, it is a value bet for protecting Ace high vs. a gutshot.
I think I would c-bet here.

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whats you plan for the Turn? cc hands are like TJs Ts 88 imho...not any of em folds here

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It depends on the turn card obv. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
But, actually I dont want JTs Ts (whatever that means) to fold b/c of pot odds.
I want 88 to fold, of course, but 88 will have a decision to make to call with 2 overcards.

Edit: And I actually dont think a 30/20 fellow will coldcall 88 here.

TheWunderkind · #19 06-10-2007, 01:02 AM

wich Turns do you fire again?

btw a 30/20 guy is normally a pretty good player , that said he shouldnt cc and hand from the Btn normally so you cant say he wouldnt cc 88 also 88 will never fold this Flop...the Point with the QT JT Hands that they dont fold is that youre oop so youre normally stuck with a decision on the Turn wich is not easy imho. Its about how often you will win this Flop
a bet rightout, is it really more or at least 1 in 6?What hands do fold here?

disjunction · #20 06-10-2007, 01:20 AM

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disjunction,

do you mean you looked at ranges and tried to estimate the chances?

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Negatory, I meant I looked at it empirically about a year back. I was looking for any type of flop where I showed an immediate profit by taking it down uncontested, and the conclusion I came to was that with few exceptions, it never happens.

Still, you caught me talking out of my ass. I hadn't tried anything this dry. In my 300K lifetime hands, on king-high rainbow flops where I was the preflop raiser with 2 callers, the middle card is lower than 10 and the bottom card is lower than 6, I took it down uncontested 20 out of 90 times. Ok, that's a terrible sample size, but I'll claim victory anyway. Yippee! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]