2 hands - KK preflop.... What should I have done?

[nutsflopper]

[ QUOTE ]
My friend Steve, emails me at his work with a response:

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Even before knowing what the poll results are, it will probably be 80%+ in
favour of not folding KK preflop. All ABC players will bet their stack.
Maybe that is why it is hard to win tournaments when only the top 10% make
the money, since there are more mediocre players than great players.

I don't see what your point is. The masses will agree with you and you
win your debate. I am just making the point that it is possible to make
big lay downs based on experience, observations, and betting patterns.
Once I raised in late position in an unopened pot with total junk J3o and
SB called. Flop is Ace high with rags and SB checks and I bet 75% of the
pot and he folds. He then said you had a big kicker, right? I felt so
guilty that I just replied "big kicker is all relative" ...

Just like in other sports, you have a superstar, two or three other great
players followed by average players providing the supporting cast in a team.
I believe poker is probably no different ... only a handful of really, great
players, followed by a bunch of experienced and seasoned pros, and then a
bunch of wannabe hotshots. The luck and suck out factor weighs in more
heavily in poker than in sports, however, creating more of an imbalance.

Steve
--------

I still will live and die with KKs!

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I feel guilty about how great I am when I make a position raise and C-bet too!

[mingorama]

It would take a very strong read on players I've logged plenty of hours with before I ever lay down KK preflop. I'll take my chances with it, and hope the board is kind.

[Vinny80]

[ QUOTE ]
Does your friend even play short handed MSNL?

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that he's playing 10+1 sitngo...

[runningirl07]

aces both times???? if so that is awful, bad luck you played them fine. People are pushing so many worse hands here if they are aggressive. You could fold but I would never, I think if you are wanting to fold these preflop, you need to take a break from poker.

[jlkrusty]

I wouldn't fold either of these hands; however, if you're not 4-betting and 5-betting other hands, then you might hold off on that final bet and try to get it in on the flop. Really depends on your style of play.

[CrazyIvan24]

Thank you all 2+2 players. I guess everyone here says they do not fold KK preflop, let alone in an online environment against any semi-loose/aggr players.

Yes I agree I've seen many worse hands, I've just been running bad, so I was wondering. hanks

[CieloAzor]

Since OP's questions seem to be answered, I may as well post my own KK hand here, rather than starting a new topic. This one is over 250BBs deep, so perhaps a bit more interesting. The converter doesn't seem to work with my site's hand histories and results of the hand are obvious, so I won't bother erasing it.

Stakes: $3/$6 Blinds ($1 Minimum Chip)
Seat 1 : Billingshurst starts with $573
Seat 2 : CieloAzor starts with $1 589
Seat 3 : kabul starts with $1 563
Seat 4 : W11BAD starts with $705
Seat 5 : podge59 starts with $1 262
Seat 6 : bosox555 starts with $401
Seat 6 : bosox555 has the dealer button
Billingshurst posts the small blind $3
CieloAzor posts the big blind $6
>>>DEALING HOLE CARDS<<<
CieloAzor dealt down [Kh Kd]
kabul raises $15 to $21
W11BAD folds
bosox555 folds
Billingshurst folds
CieloAzor raises $45 to $66
kabul raises $275 to $341
CieloAzor raises $1 248 to $1 589 and is all-in
kabul calls $1 222 and is all-in
CieloAzor takes back $26
>>>DEALING FLOP<<< [ 9c 10s 2h ]
bosox555 : wow
>>>DEALING TURN<<< [ 8c ]
>>>DEALING RIVER<<< [ Ac ]
CieloAzor cards were Kd Kh
kabul cards were As Ah
kabul wins $3,127 with three of a kind, aces

kabul and I seemed to be the best 2 players at the table and he had been coming over the top of me many times, with me folding to the reraise. The previous time, however, I had called him with Q9o and check-raised the flop with air to take it down.

Still, I'm concerned that my final raise is maybe too large and doesn't get called even by QQ. Maybe I'd do better to flat call, and get the money in on the flop?

Is villain's huge 4-bet a strong indicator that he's got AA here? I think it may be, but I didn't even notice it at the time. I was hoping he'd put that last raise in, and when he did, I pushed without much study.