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#1
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
"playing for 10 years 40 hours a [week] (curretly sitting @ a $1/$2 Table in Detroit)"
$1/$2 limit table??????? |
#2
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
The bad beat jackpot is a scam unless there's a regulation against it... I only know about Winstar, and there is A LOT taken out of the drop.
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#3
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
[ QUOTE ]
"playing for 10 years 40 hours a [week] (curretly sitting @ a $1/$2 Table in Detroit)" $1/$2 limit table??????? [/ QUOTE ] "Week" is correct. It was $1/$2 No Limit Tx Hold'Em (Buy-in $50-$200) |
#4
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
BBJ is highly +EV if you only play in the room when the jackpot is very large. It is highly -EV if you're a room regular who plays day after day regardless of the jackpot. Sure, overall the BBJ is neutral if they don't take a rake. But for a specific player it may be -EV or +EV.
It's like buying lottery tickets when the jackpot is $5M vs $300M. One is ST00P1D beyond compare, and the other just not too smart. I hate BBJ's. Don't mind the high hands long as the room returns 100% of the money in the form of the high-hand payouts. Alas, most do not--they take a high hand rake and only return some fraction in the form of payouts for high hands, and then use the rest to do various special promos that only special people qualify for (like most of the Vegas freeroll tourneys--they're funded from the HHJ rake, but only people who put in 40 hours/month get a crack at it and the rest of us are paying for it). |
#5
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
I have heard that a lot of casinos keep a lot of the jackpot money for themselves. Someone told me the Commerce pays out less than half. Cardrooms often use some of this money for other player benefits like freeroll tournaments for regulars who have played a certain number of hours in a month. If you're not a regular who plays tourneys this is of no benefit to you though.
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#6
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
[ QUOTE ]
I have heard that a lot of casinos keep a lot of the jackpot money for themselves. Someone told me the Commerce pays out less than half. [/ QUOTE ] Commerce is a wierd one. By law, they cannot keep half. So thats not what is going on . While I do not have any first hand knowledge, I do know how to figure out what makes logical sense. Ten years ago, Commerce used to regularly get 20+ $6-12 LHE games going. The jackpot on that game was phenomenal....and only required Aces full beaten by four of a kind. The jackpot regularly would reach $50K and even 100K sometimes. The house did not add any money, and there were no double jackpots or other promotions. Now, the jackpots for the $9-18 rarely reach even $15K. But Commerce has that crappy twice a day 100K jackpot that is nearly impossible to hit. My very strong suspicion is that Commerce holds back a significant amount of money to fund any lucky streak on those 100K jackpots. Either that, or they pay a hefty insurance in case there is a lucky streak on those. I'd be very interested to see an accounting of what Commerce does with their jackpot money and what administrative fees are involved. |
#7
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
[quote]
Quote:
I think some may be confused with cardrooms/casinos that don't take a BBJ collection and set asside a percentage of the rake for BBJ. I would be very interested to see if anyone could confirm that Commerce actually gets away with taking a service charge of any kind out of the players pool. As far as freerolls/high hand/aces cracked and other promotions can come out of player's pools. |
#8
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
1) On the math, IMO, BBJ's are -EV because less than the sum collected goes back to the player. OTOH,
A) It is VERY clear that BBJ's ATTRACT people to our games. I even try to play during 2X JP times. B) A number of people who post here have had signficant additions to their bankrolls from JPs. This made it easier for them to "move up" faster. C) My two table shares this year were worth almost $4/hr. (or .5BB/hr if you prefer) I don't include this $ in my poker stats. D) So overall, for the slight -EV (and some casinos do fund some of their JP's so those ARE +EV), I like what they do for the action. If you play a lot, you'll catch at least your share and possibly more. No reason for "hate" here. |
#9
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
[ QUOTE ]
1) On the math, IMO, BBJ's are -EV because less than the sum collected goes back to the player. [/ QUOTE ] Not true in Nevada. Gaming regulations prohibit them from raking more than 10% from a game, and raking the BBJ/HHJ drop would put 'em over 10%. |
#10
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Re: Bad Beat Jackpots = Zero Sum?
[ QUOTE ]
Gaming regulations prohibit them from raking more than 10% from a game, and raking the BBJ/HHJ drop would put 'em over 10%. [/ QUOTE ] Wouldn't that only be true if the $1 that constitutes the jackpot drop is also counted toward the raked pot? For example, take a 1/2NL game with a 10% to $4 rake. The last dollar is taken out at $40, and the jackpot drop is taken out at $20. Consider a gross pot of $40. $1 got taken out for the jackpot at $20, leaving $39. Only $3 got taken out for rake, because pot after jackpot drop < $40. Total rake is $3 + $.10 that will be raked from the jackpot. $3.10 < 10% * $40. Now consider a gross pot of $41. $1 got taken out for the jackpot at $20, leaving $40. As a result, $4 was raked from the pot. Total rake is $4 + $.10 on the jackpot. $4.10 = 10% * $41. |
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