PokerTracker: The Next Generation (NEW SOFTWARE DISCUSSION)

[PokerAce]

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Competition (or even the suggestion of such) breeds progress it would seem [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Discussion of this collaboration began many many months ago. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]


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I would suggest PokerTracker work to drop all support for Access databases and therefore focus on improving the speed of DB functions using PGSQL... if nothing else, the RVG Holdem Manager thread suggests very fast performance is possible using PSQL, and I'm 90% certain the fact that PT's SQL routines are derived from / rooted in MS Access is a killer in the performance area.

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Database speed is a major focus and a very important part of the new software.


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Obviously 3bet / 4bet stats etc are desired, but this is under discussion (maybe even implementation now) already I know.

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Yeah, these will definitely be available.


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Focus more on NL aspects in general would be well advised, NL seems to have become massively more popular since PT started.

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Yes, this is true. Better support for tournaments too.


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A fully documented database schema would (for me anyhow) be fantastic, it is a huge waste of time trying to figure out what a certain column means / how values are encoded.

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Documentation and ease of use is something that is a huge focus in this project.


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Ideally, the database (game_players table mainly I suppose) would be re-structured (or maybe an additional table linked to it) so that the entire process of a hand could be reconstructed (therefore queried) after the fact, without the HH file. maybe that is not very clear... a new table (or modification of existing table) so that one could find e.g. "all hands where I was check-minraised on the turn" for example...

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Yes, the plan is to have every action available via the database without having to parse the hand history.

[steel108]

Um.... your posting this because Hold Em Manager is coming out soon and will make PokerTracker and your product obsolete. Please don't post under the guise of wanting to satisfy your customers; it's a little late for that. This is actually meant for PT and not PAHUD since I have never had a problem with your software or customer service. It just sucks that your product will be attached to PT.

[PokerAce]

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Um.... your posting this because Hold Em Manager is coming out soon and will make PokerTracker and your product obsolete. Please don't post under the guise of wanting to satisfy your customers; it's a little late for that. This is actually meant for PT and not PAHUD since I have never had a problem with your software or customer service. It just sucks that your product will be attached to PT.

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The timing of this post has a bit to do with the competition, that's true, but the collaboration and the design of the next generation has been in the works for much longer than HoldemManager has been known of.

There are problems with HoldemManager that I will not discuss, that lead not only myself, but other experienced developers to believe that it will not be "the next PokerTracker". PokerTracker is number one for a reason, and it has nothing to do with getting to the market first. There is well known competition, but yet PT continues to exist. Not only exist, but thrive.

To think that the PT developers have not strived to satisfy their customers is ridiculous. Ask just about anyone who has had a problem with PT and dealt with support. They will tell you how great PT support is. Support is so dedicated that they would sacrifice new shiny features that might attract new customers in order to help existing users with their problems.

[ekra]

Well a lot of people are using PT and PA now so i want to know what my stats are on other peoples databases too.
Lets say i have 1000 hands on someone, i like to see what my stats were on those 1000 specific hands, and there should be way to view them via a hud too.

[_dave_]

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Um.... your posting this because Hold Em Manager is coming out soon and will make PokerTracker and your product obsolete. Please don't post under the guise of wanting to satisfy your customers; it's a little late for that. This is actually meant for PT and not PAHUD since I have never had a problem with your software or customer service. It just sucks that your product will be attached to PT.

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The timing of this post has a bit to do with the competition, that's true, but the collaboration and the design of the next generation has been in the works for much longer than HoldemManager has been known of.


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FWIW, there has been "3/4 bet stats - what do you want to see added" threads on the PT forum for a long time now... I have no doubt PT + Josh have been working on a major upgrade for a good while... my comment was mainly in jest.

As I said before, I will certainly purchase HM - But there is no way I will stop using PT + PAHUD... as I'm sure anyone sensible will be doing, I will be running booth in tandem for the foreseeable future.


dave.

[HighSteaks]

This is great news, I would hate to have to buy another product from competitors if a better one came out, simply because the support from PAH and PT is first class. As far as PT only doing PostgresSQL - my computer loads up Postgres fine, totally functional and on restart it can't find the DB, I have had several attempts with PT support and they couldn't work it out - if Postgres is the way to go(and I think it is), then clearly they need to know more about Postgres. It doesn't overly bother me and I have no issue with PT support that they could not remedy this, just saying if it is going to become the standard it has to be understood better. My main concern with PT is buddylisting, poker is getting tougher so that is the future to me- far more sorting features are needed and a simple way to then export the list to programme's like Spade Eye. But really detailed, basically the ability to sort buddies with EVERY statistic you have on them. "All in" hand analysis would also be nice, filtered along the lines of "shoved", "called a shove" etc.- considering this is where you get the most money in, it is a part of your game you should be able to analyze well.

[rvg72]

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There are problems with HoldemManager that I will not discuss, that lead not only myself, but other experienced developers to believe that it will not be "the next PokerTracker".

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Good luck with the new application, I look forward to the competition. Please keep comments like this to a minimum and I'll do the same! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I do have a lot of respect for the work that you and Pat have done. On the other hand I have 16 years experience as a developer/architect including the last 12 as Senior Architect for the company I cofounded that now has a market cap of $60 million so I know a thing or two about building software [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

thanks,

rvg

Edit: I won't post any more in your thread by the way and I really do respect the work you guys have done.

[mikechops]

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The timing of this post has a bit to do with the competition, that's true, but the collaboration and the design of the next generation has been in the works for much longer than HoldemManager has been known of.

There are problems with HoldemManager that I will not discuss, that lead not only myself, but other experienced developers to believe that it will not be "the next PokerTracker". PokerTracker is number one for a reason, and it has nothing to do with getting to the market first. There is well known competition, but yet PT continues to exist. Not only exist, but thrive.

To think that the PT developers have not strived to satisfy their customers is ridiculous. Ask just about anyone who has had a problem with PT and dealt with support. They will tell you how great PT support is. Support is so dedicated that they would sacrifice new shiny features that might attract new customers in order to help existing users with their problems.

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I'd say knocking somebody else's product is in kind of poor taste. But from reading the following posts, perhaps you didn't mean it to sound as harsh...

As for why Poker Tracker is number one, I think lack of competition is the major reason. Almost all the improvements in the user experience have been a result of 3rd party add-ons. (Noteably PAHUD, Poker grapher, and lately PokerEV). The only thing that has changed in PT itself has been support for additional sites and adjustments for when sites change their HH format - which should be pretty easy.

I can't say what 'support' is like as I have only had to request a new code when my drive crashed. My experience was good, but taking credit for that is like Chris Rock saying "I take care of my kids."

[resboard]

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There are problems with HoldemManager that I will not discuss, that lead not only myself, but other experienced developers to believe that it will not be "the next PokerTracker". PokerTracker is number one for a reason, and it has nothing to do with getting to the market first. There is well known competition, but yet PT continues to exist. Not only exist, but thrive.


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Can you elaborate. It does no good to say something like that without backing it up. I own both PT and PAHUD and like everyone else trying to decide which route to go.

[jukofyork]

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Competition (or even the suggestion of such) breeds progress it would seem [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Looks like us end-users are in for some long awaited improvements! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]