Let's build a business.

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
this idea sounds like it would need a lot of start up costs and a lot of capital to keep it running while it grows to profitability. do you have access to that kind of roll? i honestly dont think this is the idea that a first timer should attempt.

i like the idea, would probably hang out there with my laptop. i just think that big of a place would burn thru a lot of cash real quick. 4 floors of space comes to how much rent per month? i pay about $21-$23 per sq. ft. on a five year escalating lease for 3500 square feet. i would guess 4 floors has to have close to that much space. that's before the insurance the landlord sticks you with. then you have to have a few employees, i don't think you could run the whole shop yourself. trust me, employees, for what you get out of them, can be you costliest expense. then you have to fill the place with all the furniture, games, etc., thats before you bring in dollar one.

i do think you may be trying to do too much also. this is just a personal opinion because my business doesn't market to the public so i don't know jack about selling to the public, but maybe you just want to scale down a little and focus on one of the ideas for the floors, like the internet lounge thing, or the arcade thing in a smaller space.

as your idea stands now, i don't know if you realize what a large undertaking it is and how much capital you would realistically need to make it work. honestly, do you have access to that large of a bankroll and are you willing to risk it on this? if you do, then good luck to you and update us as you go

[/ QUOTE ]

With taxes and insurance I'll be paying approximately 1600/month and there are about 1600 sq ft per floor.

Thinking about it today, I definitely think a 4 floor hookah bar/lounge would probably be better. Much less of a start up cost. I'm going to start looking into getting a liquor license early next week. Top floor VIP section would be pretty pimp, too. 2nd floor would still be dance floor + DJ + bands. Wifi for sure. During the day I could just have the first floor open for business. At night open up the other floors.

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't rent a non-factor? OP is buying the building outright, I thought.

Also, how much do liquor licenses/insurance run for in Ithaca? That could may be prohibitive.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I found as a source. $3,072 isn't that bad. I don't know how hard it would be to actually obtain a license. I remember a *TT* thread where he talked about opening his club and how they just bribed whoever was taking their request...is it that easy?

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
just curious, how profitable would you expect (or like) something like this to be? with reasonable success, in 2 years how much do you expect to be banking into your pocket and how much of your time would you be continuing to put into the business?

i'm all for doing it for the experience but it just doesn't seem like there is much money in it if that's what your after

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to run it for a year or so and then get a manager. I am going through with this for a few reasons.

1. Experience, like you said. This is the most valuable to me, and while I know nothing about business, I'm only going to learn by doing. My mom has owned a health food store for my whole life, so she knows the orginizational bit of it all, and has experience with other businesses, so I'm not running into thie blind.

2. Rapport with lenders. Once I've paid them back from my first mortgage on the house I'm flipping, I'll start developing some good credit, something I've never had (not because I don't pay bills...because I've never had bills to pay, nor have I ever had a credit card). Once I show I pay my debts, I'll be able to borrow more money.

3. Make connections. Once I start this business, and am in the limelight a bight, I can start meeting other business owners and entrepeneurs, and hopefully business partners. This is the hope, anyway.

4. $$$, although, this is way, way, way in the back of my mind. As far as I'm concerned, if the first two years can be breakeven, then I'm a winner.

[Tien]

Can you give me a summary about how you are different than your competition?

I just want to envision it in my mind.

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you give me a summary about how you are different than your competition?

I just want to envision it in my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

The great thing is...there is no competition. If we're talking purely wifi internet cafe, it doesn't really exist. There was a place called WowNET that was pretty successful (I'm friends with the past owner), but died due to the juice. Most of his income ended up coming from bringing in bands, he said, and he didn't sell alcohol either. With income from both alcohol and the hookahs, this place is both a lounge, a bar, an internet cafe and a dance club (that can cater to the 18-21 crowd, possible? Card for 18+ at initial entrance, and 21+ at 3rd floor entrance?).

So, basically this is what will set us apart.

-18-21 range not currently addressed.

-Internet cafe not currently addressed.

-Dance club not currently addressed

-Place with VIP lounge not currently addressed

-Multi-tiered business where all floors are visible to the public is something that does not exist and has the "unique" factor (The newest bar, which now is almost 3 years old, 2nd Floor Bar, has this concept, but it's only on one floor, but it is an extremely popular place in the Commons, and I think a large part is the large window where you can see in/out).

That's all I can come up with off the top of my head...but those are still really large niches.

[El Diablo]

Chaos,

What sort of staff numbers are you envisioning for the four story lounge idea?

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
Chaos,

What sort of staff numbers are you envisioning for the four story lounge idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hot girls. I will pay a few extra bucks an hour to have attractive college girls work there, which will more than pay for itself. Secondary to hot girls, all the staff will be college students. If and when the time comes to obtain a manager, it will have to be someone who lives in the area. I've already decided Kate is going to run karaoke night, but I haven't told her yet.

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chaos,

What sort of staff numbers are you envisioning for the four story lounge idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hot girls. I will pay a few extra bucks an hour to have attractive college girls work there, which will more than pay for itself. Secondary to hot girls, all the staff will be college students. If and when the time comes to obtain a manager, it will have to be someone who lives in the area. I've already decided Kate is going to run karaoke night, but I haven't told her yet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he was asking something along the lines of how many people you'd have to employ, not how attractive they'd be.

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Chaos,

What sort of staff numbers are you envisioning for the four story lounge idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hot girls. I will pay a few extra bucks an hour to have attractive college girls work there, which will more than pay for itself. Secondary to hot girls, all the staff will be college students. If and when the time comes to obtain a manager, it will have to be someone who lives in the area. I've already decided Kate is going to run karaoke night, but I haven't told her yet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he was asking something along the lines of how many people you'd have to employ, not how attractive they'd be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I read "numbers" as "members", although I still stand by my claim.

Numberwise, 2 during the day seems fine to me, when its just the first floor lounge area. During the night, 2-3 bouncers, 2 wait staff, 3-4 bartenders (depending on how large of a bar area we end up having/if we end up being able to get a liquor license). So the minimum being 7 and maximum being around 9. Coming out to expenses of 55-80 hour.

Also, I suppose, to expound a bit, the top floor, VIP area would definitely need a server if it's booked. In Europe, many clubs would have hot girls walking around with pr-emade drinks/shooters. The pull to buy a pre-made drink is absolutely insane. This would be key, and it's something no one does here.

One Bouncer for the front door, and one for where they serve alcohol. I have a designer I'm going to be calling on Monday to discuss design ideas with, for this place. I may just have to go the bracelet route and have 2-3 watchdogs making sure there is no underaged drinking, since Ithaca is hardcore on that.

[El Diablo]

Chaos,

Don't forget about insurance, permits, worker's comp, unemployment, and all the standard operating expenses (utilities, supplies, maintenance, etc).

You're talking about an 8-10 person 4-story operation. I suspect when you put together your real budget, operating costs are going to be WAY more than you're currently envisioning.

Also, managing a bar is SUPER hard. Especially in an environment like this. Very easy to have all your profits poured away every night or just walk out the door.