K,Qs hand

[Oink]

I agree with most of your points but I think you forget that calling makes it more likely that we get multiple bets in the middle on the turn or river when we catch our flush.

[Oink]

And I know another thing: The more passive we play the flop the more bets on average will we get in on the turn or river when we hit.

[xerxesthegod]

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I know one thing: the more players that see the turn, the more bets you are going to pay, on average, to see the river.

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Yeah but you'll get paid off on that when you hit. Lol if you don't wanna put any money in and win, poker isn't the game for you. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
I know one thing: the more players that see the turn, the more bets you are going to pay, on average, to see the river.

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Another considerion that shouldnt be overlooked is that the more people that see the turn the more likely you will get rivered should you turn the best hand when a King or Queen hits. The pot doesnt have to get that large for this concept to matter, so this is yet another reason supporting a flop raise.

I do think the flop play is close. I certainly see an incentive to call, and I also see an incentive to raise. It is hard for me to quantify which play is better becuz I honestly dont know, which leads me to believe the difference in expectation between raising and calling must be close which means debating about which line is better is probably a waste of time. In general I try to use the pot size to guide my decision in this spot, and naturally the larger the pot size the more apt I will be to raise becuz then increasing our chances of winning by even a few percentage points matters. I personally would raise the flop in this particular situation.

PS: 3bet preflop.

[bbbushu]

i agree with ILP929. i would like to add that i see the flop raise also as buying us a CHOICE on the turn. if we hit a K or Q, our raise has made it more likely that we will be checked to, allowing us to protect our newly improved best hand by facing fewer opponents with the double bet. if we miss we have cheaply purchased a look at another card (although we may still choose to not take it, for example if the blinds called our raise and we want them to fold K2, K6, Q2 and Q6). seeing as our worst-case scenarios are everybody calling or the blinds folding and UTG three-betting or something, our huge amount of equity provides a comfortable safety net no matter what happens.

bbbushu