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#11
09-26-2006, 11:24 AM
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Re: How often do we cbet?
I'm @ 70%, but recently have really been working on what Skuzzy said (as opposed to just bet bet bet):
[ QUOTE ] ...anyway, OP: I cbet when the board is dry but looks like a raiser may have hit it, ideally one broadway card on a rainbow flop. I stop cbetting when the board is wet like 2 flush connected or two connected broadway. I ma more inclined to cbet TAgs than LAgs. [/ QUOTE ] so I think it may come down to 60 - 65%. 
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#12
09-18-2007, 01:35 PM
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Re: How often do we cbet?
[ QUOTE ]
I cbet when the board is dry but looks like a raiser may have hit it, ideally one broadway card on a rainbow flop. I stop cbetting when the board is wet like 2 flush connected or two connected broadway. [/ QUOTE ] This makes sense to me from a level 2 (or level 1, sigh) perspective: you think about what your opponents has and because it's more difficult to hit a K72r board than a TJ7 two-tone board, you cbet the first but (maybe) not the second. But take that one level higher: if Villain thinks in this way (which requires a thinking villain, for starters), he must respect your bet on the TJ7 more than the K72r one. Or the same reasoning: if Hero thinks that a TJ7 two-tone is better for floating, he'll fire second barrels on blank turns more etc. So Villain should float on the K72r kind of boards because Hero won't suspect you are floating and Hero generally c/f on the K72r when he has missed and his cbet has been called. Or am I missing something here?
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#13
09-18-2007, 02:14 PM
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Re: How often do we cbet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I cbet when the board is dry but looks like a raiser may have hit it, ideally one broadway card on a rainbow flop. I stop cbetting when the board is wet like 2 flush connected or two connected broadway. [/ QUOTE ] This makes sense to me from a level 2 (or level 1, sigh) perspective: you think about what your opponents has and because it's more difficult to hit a K72r board than a TJ7 two-tone board, you cbet the first but (maybe) not the second. But take that one level higher: if Villain thinks in this way (which requires a thinking villain, for starters), he must respect your bet on the TJ7 more than the K72r one. Or the same reasoning: if Hero thinks that a TJ7 two-tone is better for floating, he'll fire second barrels on blank turns more etc. So Villain should float on the K72r kind of boards because Hero won't suspect you are floating and Hero generally c/f on the K72r when he has missed and his cbet has been called. Or am I missing something here? [/ QUOTE ] 1.) Leveling in SSNL games is usually counterproductive. 2.) It's not just chasers that are relevant. The chances are greater that you are behind/crushed on tasty boards.
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#14
09-18-2007, 02:16 PM
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Re: How often do we cbet?
[ QUOTE ]
in position i cbet close to 100% vs. 1 opponent IP vs. 2 I need at least 5 clean outs OOP vs. 1 opp I need at least 5 clean outs to cbet oop vs. 2 opps, I dont even go there. not without 9+ clean outs, or a made hand. [/ QUOTE ] unless you cbet with zero outs, youre missing the point.
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#15
09-18-2007, 02:21 PM
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Re: How often do we cbet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] in position i cbet close to 100% vs. 1 opponent IP vs. 2 I need at least 5 clean outs OOP vs. 1 opp I need at least 5 clean outs to cbet oop vs. 2 opps, I dont even go there. not without 9+ clean outs, or a made hand. [/ QUOTE ] Play the board more. Dumle [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I don't know what he's on about. I've never even considered my "outs" when c-betting.
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#16
09-18-2007, 04:04 PM
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Re: How often do we cbet?
[ QUOTE ]
1.) Leveling in SSNL games is usually counterproductive. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I understand that, I'm talking more from the theoretical point of view. [ QUOTE ] 2.) It's not just chasers that are relevant. The chances are greater that you are behind/crushed on tasty boards. [/ QUOTE ] I would like to see some PokerStove analysis of that (but I can't stove here). I think it depends a lot on the range for the coldcaller, but I'd say that a UTG opening range of {22+, AJ+, KQ+, QJs} could hit a 7T9 twotone board just as good as a K72r board.
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#17
09-18-2007, 06:14 PM
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Re: How often do we cbet?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] 1.) Leveling in SSNL games is usually counterproductive. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I understand that, I'm talking more from the theoretical point of view. [/ QUOTE ] Well, then, yes, if you step up a level of deception, then flip it around like you said. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 2.) It's not just chasers that are relevant. The chances are greater that you are behind/crushed on tasty boards. [/ QUOTE ] I would like to see some PokerStove analysis of that (but I can't stove here). I think it depends a lot on the range for the coldcaller, but I'd say that a UTG opening range of {22+, AJ+, KQ+, QJs} could hit a 7T9 twotone board just as good as a K72r board. [/ QUOTE ] For the cold-caller's range, he often has some sort of good implied odds hand like mid-pairs or mid-SCs, and now not only does he know that the opening raiser is likely to have whiffed, but he also may have hit the flop hard. For the original raiser, I don't have pokerstove at the moment either, but it's immediately obvious that the K72r flop is more likely to hit.
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