Getting Killed in Vegas 2/4 Games and Can't Find a Way Out

[jesse8888]

You should bet out on the turn, because your hand is strong enough (on that board) to three bet. If you had bet out, he would have raised you with his new found two pair. You'd have 3 balled him and got in one more bet with your big chalupa.

River is either a check/call or a bet/call. I can't possibly find a raise, and this is because there are no draws available and the villian pretty much HAS to have a 2 when he raises.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
How did I play that poorly? I got the maximum bets in on the turn with the best hand? The river in retrospect I was wrong to cap this time, but I put him on AQ or AJ because he only called my check raise with the lower two pair.

He was drawing at a two-outer on the river to win and hit it. What exactly did I do wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you bet the turn, he raises and you could 3 bet. also, all too often checking the turn results in him checking behind (especially on a flop like this) and you miss value.

you also put in 1 too many river bets, but you saw that.

finally, you should not be upset about beats like this. you dont want him to fold A2 on this flop. you make money in poker when people call with improper odds, not from them folding.

thus, 2 things to take away from this hand:

1) do not make fancy plays in 2/4 (like you did on the turn).

2) do not be upset when people hit longshot draws against you. people chasing these draws are what make the games profitable.

[jesse8888]

Kit, what action do you prefer on the river?

OP, don't get discouraged by stuff like this, seriously. It's a tough game sometimes. I'd take Kit's advice to heart and open up a bit; perhaps not as much as he says, but close.

SSHE is "Small Stakes Hold Em" by Millar, Sklansky, and....gah...someone else. It is a red book with a big gun on the cover, and you can/should buy it from this site. If you read it, you will crush them.

[Hyperrrprank]

You played poorly because you went for checkraise on the turn when you had top two pair after raising preflop. The chance this will get checked around is huge, which makes going for a c/r instead of betting out is terrible. Bet and 3-bet if he raises. Checking absolutely does not get the maximium in when you're ahead, it either gets in zero or two bets. Betting and 3-betting either gets in one or three bets. (not considering for a moment those times you get raised again).

After you c/r the turn, not betting the river is even worse. You lose a ton of value if you consistently check whenever even a minor scare card hits. Checking the river is giving a pass when your opponent is behind a huge portion of the time, which loses money for you slowly but surely. He had the deuce this time, but that doesn't mean checking was the right move, most of the time he will not have the winning hand.

Edit: Don't take this any criticism here as personal, people have pointed out terrible moves I've made that I thought were perfect at the time. The people posting here will make you a better player if you are able to hear what they are saying.

[banzi]

Right I understand that, but this happens all the time [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Remember, I put him on AQ/AJ or AX (didn't consider a 2 as an X simply because of his hands I'd seen in the past couple of hours). I thought if I bet out on the turn I'd get called down to the river. With the 2 pairing on the river I hoped he had AQ or AJ and yes, I was wrong.

This was probably a poor hand to show my problem as it's more my mistake than his (although if you claim now that he was correct to play A2o for a raise in early position then I am really REALLY lost because that is contrary to everything I've ever read or learnt about the game). I wish I had a better memory for hands, but I tend not to remember beats - I tilt way too quickly otherwise.

I have tried the bet, bet, bet approach and that simply doesn't work either. I honestly don't know what to try now as your posts have me confused to my ability in general. I thought I was doing the right thing with plays like this.

So, what should I focus on first?

[Hyperrrprank]

Read Small Stakes Hold'Em

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
although if you claim now that he was correct to play A2o for a raise in early position

[/ QUOTE ]
i never said that.

i said that its profitable FOR YOU if he does that.

purchase small stakes hold em by Ed Miller. read it several times, digest it, and practice it in your games.

it will pay for itself many times over. I still use concepts in the book over and over again in 10/20 limit games.

[banzi]

Okay put that as a given. I have a B&N right up the street here and I'll pick up a copy later on this afternoon (I'm a sucker for immediate gratification or I'd buy it from here).

When you say "Suited broadway" are you talking about ONLY suited face cards except for the tens, or Ax, Kx, Qx and Jx suited?

[Frond]

OP no offense, but maybe you should check out Getting Started in Hold Em and then read SSHE. Either way, for sure read SSHE.

[banzi]

No what I meant is that you said I played the hand poorly, which implies he played it well. I had a read, it was wrong - simple as that I guess. BUt as I said it was a bad hand to start off with - sorry [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

This is tough it really is. I love the game but the constant loss is starting to eat me up. I know I am capable of much more than this and I do have past results to prove it. I am not a newcommer to the game by any means.

Hmm. Myabe that's exactly my problem. The game has changed but I haven't?