Yay slick early in BB with 4 limps; now the sb is raising

[NutsChamp]

I shove here everytime and get a call from AQ-AT a sick amount of times. If its an underpair, you have made him decide whether or not we wants to call first of all, and second if he does (which he probably will since he is happy to raise out of the SB with it) you have the limps on the table to make up for the small edge he has. Also forgot this was a knockout tourney, which makes his calling range even wider!

[PantsOnFire]

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But shoving AKo pre so early is just so not my TAG style...

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I don't know what you mean by early. If you are talking about the number of BBs you have, then I think you meant "deep" instead of "early".

Regardless, I remember reading the math for a play like this. I can't remember the book or the author but it essentially stated that if the amount of chips in the pot is 1/5 or greater than your stack, you should move in with AK. It is not an overbet, it is a solid TAG play using a good starting hand and fold equity. Increasing your stack by 1/5 or more without a fight is good any time in a tourney and getting all-in with a premium hand is also good.

This advice isn't related to either early or deep, it's related to the stack to pot size ratio which is really important for a NL player. I think a shove is a very reasonable play, if not the absolute best play.

[dray]

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But shoving AKo pre so early is just so not my TAG style...

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I don't know what you mean by early. If you are talking about the number of BBs you have, then I think you meant "deep" instead of "early".

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I mean flipping a coin for my tournament in the first blind level. But I completely agree with you guys on the shove as the best play.

Full Tilt Poker Game #4047468202: $5 + $0.50 Knockout (30724323), Table 65 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:08:56 ET - 2007/11/02
Seat 1: phantasm84 (1,710)
Seat 2: Dray (1,365)
Seat 3: NUGolf (3,505)
Seat 4: mbh1967 (1,530)
Seat 5: Galloson (1,430)
Seat 7: Luschi4590 (1,395)
Seat 8: tsdm (1,170)
Seat 9: ugafan8898 (1,395)
phantasm84 posts the small blind of 15
Dray posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dray [Kc Ad]
NUGolf calls 30
mbh1967 folds
Galloson calls 30
Luschi4590 folds
tsdm calls 30
ugafan8898 calls 30
phantasm84 raises to 210
Dray has 15 seconds left to act
Dray raises to 550
NUGolf folds
Galloson folds
babsyc03 sits down
babsyc03 adds 2,809
tsdm folds
ugafan8898 folds
phantasm84 raises to 1,710, and is all in
Dray has 15 seconds left to act
Dray calls 815, and is all in
phantasm84 shows [Jc Js]
Dray shows [Kc Ad]

[PantsOnFire]

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[ QUOTE ]
But shoving AKo pre so early is just so not my TAG style...

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I don't know what you mean by early. If you are talking about the number of BBs you have, then I think you meant "deep" instead of "early".

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean flipping a coin for my tournament in the first blind level. But I completely agree with you guys on the shove as the best play.

Full Tilt Poker Game #4047468202: $5 + $0.50 Knockout (30724323), Table 65 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:08:56 ET - 2007/11/02
Seat 1: phantasm84 (1,710)
Seat 2: Dray (1,365)
Seat 3: NUGolf (3,505)
Seat 4: mbh1967 (1,530)
Seat 5: Galloson (1,430)
Seat 7: Luschi4590 (1,395)
Seat 8: tsdm (1,170)
Seat 9: ugafan8898 (1,395)
phantasm84 posts the small blind of 15
Dray posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Dray [Kc Ad]
NUGolf calls 30
mbh1967 folds
Galloson calls 30
Luschi4590 folds
tsdm calls 30
ugafan8898 calls 30
phantasm84 raises to 210
Dray has 15 seconds left to act
Dray raises to 550
NUGolf folds
Galloson folds
babsyc03 sits down
babsyc03 adds 2,809
tsdm folds
ugafan8898 folds
phantasm84 raises to 1,710, and is all in
Dray has 15 seconds left to act
Dray calls 815, and is all in
phantasm84 shows [Jc Js]
Dray shows [Kc Ad]

[/ QUOTE ]
Couple of notes here about coinflip situations. If you are the one shoving, then you have fold equity on your side. It's only a true coinflip if villain is calling 100% of the time.

Second, you called a coinfip with AK in the above hand. However, you called with odds a lot better than 1:1. You should be calling coinflips with 2:1 odds or greater every single time in a tournament, even the first hand.

And one final note. People tend to see coinflips as two overcards vs an underpair heads up, preflop. I will take either side of that coinflip if I am getting 2:1 odds. That's something to really think about.

Also, there are many more coinflip scenarios. For example, on the flop villain goes all-in. You have the nut flush draw but you have 2:1 odds to call the all-in. This is also a true coinflip in that your pot odds match your chance of winning the hand. This is the type of coinflip you might want to avoid early.

[M1cKmAcK]

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TAG play relies on picking good, solid +EV spots and playing them aggressively.

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This is EXACTLY right! When else would you like to gamble
with AK, after 2 hours in? If I could say one sentence to
anyone playing SSMTTs, it would be:

The Donks are only around for so long - once you finally
get a hand above their all-in-calling range, (AJ+ LOL)
EARLY is the time to stack them.

-ZEN

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sentence zen? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

totally agree...

[Dunkman]

Shove, don't make this harder than it is, AK=pooosh.

[levAA]

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Shove, don't make this harder than it is, AK=pooosh.

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[betgo]

I think the as played is fine, representing a big pair. Just get allin on the flop no matter what.

[elliot]

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Shove, don't make this harder than it is, AK=pooosh.

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[MorsifiedZombie]

Why make this harder than it is...a push here gives you full value for the AK. It's the right play at any buy in level, but at low levels you have NO excuses for not poooooooshhhhing.

It's the only play here. I'm still chuckling about the line "this doesn't fit my TAG image." If you don't shove it in here you may be tight...but you are definitely not aggressive.