overpair, check-raised, raggedy-ass flop

[tyler_cracker]

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(remember this is West Coast-style kill, which is triggered by someone winning two consecutive pots.)

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That's how it works everywhere, isn't it?

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in some places (mostly East Coast), a kill is triggered by a pot above a certain size. this is also common in split-pot games.

"West Coast" is not really accurate since i think the midwest does it this way too, but midwest casino poker comes from west coast casino poker anyway.

[tyler_cracker]

for those who want to call down: if we think we're ahead often enough to get to showdown, isn't it worth it to invest 1 extra SB to (hopefully) do so HU rather than 4 ways? the pot is big and our hand is decent but vulnerable.

[marchron]

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(remember this is West Coast-style kill, which is triggered by someone winning two consecutive pots.)

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That's how it works everywhere, isn't it?

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in some places (Foxwoods), a kill is triggered by Babar slamming his button down on the table. this is also common in split-pot games.

"West Coast" is not really accurate since i think the midwest does it this way too, but midwest casino poker comes from west coast casino poker anyway.

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Yeah, that's how we do it, which is why I was wondering.

[bennyhana]

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for those who want to call down: if we think we're ahead often enough to get to showdown, isn't it worth it to invest 1 extra SB to (hopefully) do so HU rather than 4 ways? the pot is big and our hand is decent but vulnerable.

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so you're wanting to 3 bang the flop to try and get it HU? You may get overs to fold, but do you want a lamo to fold his 3? Or is that unheard of in this game?

I guess if you can fold the turn after the c/rer caps, I like that plan. Heck, it may buy you some free cards.

[JerBear77]

How does the button act after the BB preflop?!

Flop is 3 bet, with a CD if he caps it on the flop. I have to see the 3s or the 98s here. If he did a funky limp/RR thing then i "might" find a fold but that is unlikely.

[KingOtter]

3-bet flop.
Bet/fold turn.

[Montrealcorp]

yes totally 3 bet flop.
your J are very weak vs the other 2 caller if they have overcards.
he caps flop then if u dont hit a great cards( 8 or J),just fold turn
8= i would just call down

[BigBadBabar]

WE HAVE A KILL GAME!!1!1!1!!!one

[tyler_cracker]

i'm not sure this is the right way to look at this, but here are some stoves.

first case: i gave Villain a range of 8x, 3x, TT-99 (is this unreasonable?). i gave the limper the top 50% of hands. i gave the BB a random hand.

10,281,244 games 477.116 secs 21,548 games/sec

Board: 8d 8c 3s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 36.981% 36.92% 00.06% 3795965 6108.83 { JhJs }
Hand 1: 37.239% 36.57% 00.67% 3759957 68709.17 { TT-88, 33, A8s, A3s, K8s, K3s, Q8s, Q3s, J8s, J3s, T8s, T3s, 98s, 93s, 82s+, 73s, 63s, 53s, 43s, 32s, A8o, A3o, K8o, K3o, Q8o, Q3o, J8o, J3o, T8o, T3o, 98o, 93o, 83o+, 73o, 63o, 53o, 43o, 32o }
Hand 2: 14.831% 14.35% 00.48% 1475081 49767.00 { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o }
Hand 3: 10.949% 10.44% 00.51% 1073079 52577.00 { random }


second case: if my 3bet gets it HU with Villain (who still has 8x, 3x, TT-99):

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 55.869% 55.87% 00.00% 7836046 155.50 { JhJs }
Hand 1: 44.131% 44.13% 00.00% 6189758 155.50 { TT-88, 33, A8s, A3s, K8s, K3s, Q8s, Q3s, J8s, J3s, T8s, T3s, 98s, 93s, 82s+, 73s, 63s, 53s, 43s, 32s, A8o, A3o, K8o, K3o, Q8o, Q3o, J8o, J3o, T8o, T3o, 98o, 93o, 82o+, 73o, 63o, 53o, 43o, 32o }



let's assume that if i 3bet, i will get HU with villain, but he will cap the flop and lead the turn and river (and i will call down).

let's assume that if i just call, both players will call the flop and one will call all the way down.

when i just call, the pot will contain 10 BB and i have contributed 4 BB of it. i will win 6 BB 36% of the time and lose 4 BB 64% of the time: 6*.36 - 4*.64 = -.4BB.

2-ways (when i 3bet and get it HU and villain caps) the pot will contain 12 BB and i will have contributed 5 BB of it. i will win 7 BB 55% of the time and lose 5 BB 45% of the time: 7*.55 - 5*.45 = 1.6BB.


that's a significant difference. it becomes less as we skew Villain's hand range to contain more 8s (since that is his probably his most likely holding given the flop action), but i still think 3betting and hoping to get HU is the most profitable play.

is my methodology whack?

[Xhad]

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Folding is bad, don't people limp TT/99 in live games?

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Passives do, but then they don't necessarily c/r paired boards (they're far more likely to donk this flop).