Deuces never loses!

[SubaruSTiMike]

It's not horrible, remember guys, there's no set equation to play this game, yes he has low set and the bored is drawy, standard line means check raise or lead pot, but if you have a real good read, that villain WILL raise, then go ahead and induce that raise. If non heart falls, we bet again we'll probably get called by whoever called the flop minus the flush draw. I guess this is a good way to get more money in. The question is would we have gotten the same amount if we went standard line, I don't think so, because if you pot most will fold, but if someone has TPGK or overcards then they might call.

[Spellmen]

I don't like it either. PFR is only really likely to raise if he has an overpair after this weak lead and a bunch of call, also probably AKh, but he probably raises a 3/4 pot bet with these hands just as often

[Isura]

I like it except for 3-betting AI. Call the raise very quickly to keep under-representing your hand. I'd probably keep check/calling the turn if its HU and shove most rivers.

[jetsetboy]

As far as you can play other hands this way I like it (I'm not fond of anyway but I like it). If they are so bad/loose they can all call. Anybody will fell he has proper odds to call even with a gutshot or 2 overs/TP/overpair if someone called before him. Even if nobody reraise (which is a bit unlikely) you can hope for 3-4 callers meaning you'll have won an extra $9-$12. 3bet AI might be a bit surprising for even the baddest player but if you have 3 callers, a strong reraise from the PFR you would have built a huge pot and you can hope for 2 callers (one overpair+1FD). By the way I think that this move is really interesting because of the relative (and absolute) position of the PFR. Any read on him ?

My only problem with this hand is : Which other hands would you play like that ?

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
My only problem with this hand is : Which other hands would you play like that ?

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[dazraf69]

If I was one of the people that called pre-flop and I have a 9, I see the weak bet and think its either a block type bet or a flush trying to price them self in. I see where Pokey is going with this. I have noticed at higher stakes that people are far more aggressive. I see many advantages here to make this weak type play. Button with his weak raise may be slow playing a big pocket pair. Someone with a flush draw may get over eager and raise. I havnt read all the responses but I think there is advantages to this lead.

This is a tricky play that may require folding in the end. So it is a method that would have to be taken by someone with good hand reading skills. I think Pokey has enough discipline to lay down the set if the board merits it but also realizes that this is a good opportunity to win some money. I am eager to find out how this hand played out.

[dazraf69]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it except for 3-betting AI. Call the raise very quickly to keep under-representing your hand. I'd probably keep check/calling the turn if its HU and shove most rivers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had the same train of thought. Pushing will often fold most hands as it screams a set. I like a check- raise AI on the turn though if the turn blanks.

[BalugaWhale]

sorry pokey, i'm on the hate train

PSB every time, big hand-big pot. Start building it, if he wants to raise he's going to raise, and if you make it a PSB now a raise means serious business.

[Pokey]

[ QUOTE ]

PSB every time, big hand-big pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

A few people in this thread have mentioned this old poker aphorism "big hand, big pot." Notice, however, that the saying isn't "big hand, big BET." Building a big pot can happen in a number of different ways, and one is to induce a raise so that you can three-bet.

I was relatively new to the table and hadn't really "announced my presence with authority," so I was hoping to mimic a standard passive-noob-with-a-draw-pricing-himself-in line. With four other players in the pot, I figured SOMEONE would want to price me OUT of it with a raise. I fully expect that anybody with a pocket pair TT+ or with a stray 9 is going to raise this, in addition to the possibility of semi-bluff reraises from overcards (say, from the preflop raiser). The odds that SOMEONE takes a shot at it seemed pretty strong to me.

This is definitely NOT my standard play, but it seemed like a good chance to mix things up a bit. I accept all the criticisms, and I will never make this my "default move" with a set on a scaryish board, but I still think that with four other players to act at an aggressive $100NL table this play works frequently enough to be an acceptably good move.

As to the question about whether or not I should three-bet all-in, I think that most hands that raise me call the push, expecting that I'm chasing. Pushing draws OOP is common enough at $100NL that most will have seen it, and will be expecting it -- after all, "nobody would play a set that way." Even if my push folds out the crowd I'm not miserable, because while I am ahead, my hand is somewhat fragile, what with all the draws, and there are all SORTS of turn cards that either kill my hand or kill my action.

Had I been at the table long enough to establish some regular "betting patterns" I wouldn't have tried this -- it would look too unusual for me, and it would smell very fishy. Since I was relatively new, I thought I could play the donk and get away with it.

Even with all my excuses, I'm still not convinced this was a good play, but I am also not convinced it was a bad one. I'm eager to hear more comments, especially in regard to the further reasoning I just laid out.

Thanks for your thoughts -- keep 'em coming!

[zaphod]

The problem with your play is off course if all calls. Now the turn can be tricky to play in a now medium big pot.

It is sort of like limping preflop UTG with AA at a 10 handed table and receiving lots of callers, it could lead to a difficult descision later.