Step up off my continuation bet fool! - Page 2

Kyriefurro · #11 03-22-2006, 12:50 AM

I don't like it. Mostly because you don't have a read.

Without a read you have to assume that villain is an average NL100 fish, and I don't think your fold equity is very high against these types of players. These guys will NOT frequently bet with a draw, and if they do they don't bet this strong. Ditto for a medium PP. In fact most NL100 players will have a hard time leading this flop without a 4 (or 33), so check/raising with this hand is pretty risky. And you're drawing almost dead against either of these hands. Oh, and if he DOES have a flush draw, he's still pretty likely to call (although you DO have SOME outs, and villain has more than you do).

So you check-raise bluffed against an opponent who's pretty likely to call with a hand that might not have any chance of improving.

Nope, don't like it.

vulturesrow · #12 03-22-2006, 12:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it. Mostly because you don't have a read.

Without a read you have to assume that villain is an average NL100 fish, and I don't think your fold equity is very high against these types of players. These guys will NOT frequently bet with a draw, and if they do they don't bet this strong. Ditto for a medium PP. In fact most NL100 players will have a hard time leading this flop without a 4 (or 33), so check/raising with this hand is pretty risky. And you're drawing almost dead against either of these hands. Oh, and if he DOES have a flush draw, he's still pretty likely to call (although you DO have SOME outs, and villain has more than you do).

So you check-raise bluffed against an opponent who's pretty likely to call with a hand that might not have any chance of improving.

Nope, don't like it.

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The lack of reads is probably the main criticism that I think can be levelled against the way I played this. Is anyone factoring in the chances that Im actually ahead here? Its probably not insignificant on this board. Also I need to continue no farther with this hand. Maybe FPS, but it felt right at the time. It was more of an instinctual play. Hard to explain and I dont usually like to defend how I played a hand by saying "it felt right", but it did. But I can see how people dont like it.

vulturesrow · #13 03-22-2006, 09:32 AM

Bump for the morning crowd.

Cormia · #14 03-22-2006, 10:01 AM

I like the line. Even though Kyie mentioned that most $100NL seem fairly clueless (and I'm not sure I wholly agree, I've noticed a vast difference between $50NL and $100NL at Stars), if you haven't been there long and have been CBing, this could well be a hand where a mid-PP decides to get frisky and is a good way to mix up your play. I certainly wouldn't use it as a standard play, but given your described table conditions, I like it.

4_2_it · #15 03-22-2006, 10:26 AM

When a PFR check raises a flop, it screams monster to all but the worst fish. Nice as a change of pace, though having a read would make me feel better about trying it.

vulturesrow · #16 03-22-2006, 10:32 AM

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When a PFR check raises a flop, it screams monster to all but the worst fish. Nice as a change of pace, though having a read would make me feel better about trying it.

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It might. It also looks a lot like a missed AK too. Like I said, I can see why some people dont like it. But it puts a lot of pressure on the Villain, with little risk to me. I also want to reiterate something in response to Kyrie calling this a "bluff check-raise". I am willing to think there is a fairly good chance that I am ahead here. So there is a bluff component sure, but there is a value bet mixed in as well. Im still willing to be convinced this was wrong, but I still feel pretty good about this. Not something I do often, but here I think it was good.

ValarMorghulis · #17 03-22-2006, 10:55 AM

I like it (except the preflop raise).

It's particularily good against a thinking villain. The villain sees the raise from the blinds and thinks hero has 2 high cards or a high pair. Villain sees a low flop and lack of bet from hero and thinks that hero doesn't have a high pair, flop can't have hit him, lets steal a nice pot. (Or take it with best hand if he has a 3 or overpair.) But then hero comes back over the top and villain has to rethink hero's hand, sees a big pair and folds everything except a 4. (This analysis ignores the flush, straight draw possibilities.)

This is a nice way of mixing up continuation bets.

noggindoc · #18 03-22-2006, 11:00 AM

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I like it (except the preflop raise).

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Huh? He's soooooted!
I like it all around, especially against a semi-thinking opponent, as another poster noted.

vulturesrow · #19 03-22-2006, 11:02 AM

What dont you like about the preflop raise? If it was the amount, I agree. That was a multitabling error. If you flat out disagree with raising preflop here, please tell me why.

Jouster777 · #20 03-22-2006, 11:15 AM

But its not a value bet in the sense that you expect it will be called anytime you are ahead, right? You were picking off a bluff with a bluff...folding hands you were ahead of and some small to mid PPs, maybe some draws. If he calls you play it like you are behind, don't you?