chasing gut shots

[KitCloudkicker]

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Just because you are getting the odds doesnot make it the right play.

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in these situations you have to discount your outs somewhat. (read "hold em on the come.") after discounting your outs, if you still have the right odds, if you fold you are making the WRONG play.

rules like "never chase a straight with a two flush," "never chase a flush with a paired board," "never chase two pair unless your kicker beats the board" are designed to keep beginners out of trouble because they are simple and easy to learn. however, blindly following them w/o regards to pot odds will cut significantly into your profit.

[Hyperrrprank]

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Just mindlessly calling your gut shot because you have the odds is about as bad a play you can make.

Just because you are getting the odds doesnot make it the right play.

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I get what you are saying here, but the way you are saying it is misleading. As Kit pointed out, if you have a possible flush or a paired board, you need to recalculate your odds by discounting your outs. The texture of the board can create a situation where you are no longer getting correct odds to call, but it cannot make calling if you do have the correct odds a mistake. This is a fine distinction, but very important.

I believe that your intention in was to note that it was a bad play to chase the gutshot without consideration that your odds may be less than 10.5:1.

Welcome to the forum.

[jesse8888]

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One other thing to consider is if your 4 outs are clean or not. One of them might make a flush for someone on the turn etc. But yea, you usually can draw to them.

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This is critical. In a 5 way pot on a 2-flush board, 1 of your outs is almost certainly dirty.

With a gutter to the nuts on a rainbow board, you can probably draw getting only 8 to 1. With a gutter to the non-nuts on a 2-flush board, I usually want more like 12 to 1.

[Hamlet]

Not all gutshots are created equal.

Think about the difference between 67 and KQ on a board of T92

You have a gutshot to the dumb end of a straight with the first hand. I probably wouldn't bother calling a bet with it unless I was getting much better than true odds though, since I could make the hand and still lose, either by someone holding QJ or J7, or by them catching up on the river.

With the KQ, you have a gutshot to the nuts and two pretty decent overcards that might win you the pot. It is a much stronger hand than the 76. How do you quantify that?

It depends [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]