Some comments about the WCOOP structures

[raconteur]

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Whoever came up with these structures as one day events should be shot...

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Today's ignorant hyberbolic post has been brought to you by Jackal69

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This is ridiculous; how on earth is what he said ignorant? Its entirely accurate. Playing 20 hours with no break longer than 30mins, and only one of those, is insane. Why Pokerstars would set up a situation where you have a choice between playing for hundreds of thousands ridiculously tired, or breaking their tournament rules, is mind boggling.

Regards,
Richard

[BryanSPokerStars]

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structure is awesome but theres really no good reason not to make at least the bigger events 2 days

i just woke up and yesterdays tourney is still running, almost 20 hours later.. insane

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Hello, 2p2...

There's been quite a bit of discussion about WCOOP lately, in particular the length of the events and the desire on the part of some to have two-day WCOOP events. Some have wondered if it's even possible for us to have two-day events, and of course there has been quite a bit of discussion regarding whether or not doing so would be good for the events, etc.

As for the technical ability, we do have the ability to pause events and then continue them at a later time/day/etc. We have had this ability since PokerStars opened, in fact. However, there is more at issue than simply the technical ability to stop an event and then resume it later.

When we were planning WCOOP, the topic of two-day events came up and was discussed at length. In the end, it was decided that we would not have two-day events, with the deciding consideration being the preservation of the integrity of each event.

To this point, we have not yet received any negative feedback regarding event length from those who have been most-impacted by the length -- those who have been playing at the five final tables held to this point. For that matter, there hasn't been any negative feedback from those at the final three tables of any event of which I'm aware.

Having said all of the above, we will of course continue to review feedback as we do at all times. Our goal in everything we do is to give our players the best experience possible. We accomplish that goal by making sure we're listening to what our players are telling us, as this forum is well-aware. The second-highest attended WCOOP event ever (this year's Event #1) came about in large measure because of feedback from this forum. In short, we are definitely listening, and we will continue to do so as we review all possibilities.

All the best,

Bryan S.
Tournaments Administrator
PokerSTars Poker Room Management Team

[raconteur]

Whilst its undeniable that Pokerstars has always been the site most responsive to suggestions and feedback, I'm not sure that the results you just provided have much validity.
Firstly, polling the winners is unlikely to result in negative feedback, do you seriously think someone who just won six figures in a tournament is going to say, "you know what, I wish I was in bed right now waiting to play the second day well rested"?
Secondly, I'd be highly surprised if some of those deep finishers hadn't played tag team for some of the event. Of course they aren't tired and of the opinion that the tournament was too long, they probably slept through half of it.

Regards,
Richard

[Jackal69]

Bryan,

I went deep in event 2 but busted around 4am BST with less that a hundred players left, mainly out of tiredness. Both this event and event 1 were still going when i got up the next day, so I elected to sell off most of the W$ i bought and only play events like the HU and Shootout that are going to finish at a reasonable time. Event 5 is still going and its 6pm the next day here...

In your discussions about WCOOP did no-one suggest that if the levels were 20 minutes instead of 30 that you might have about 25-50% more players in each event - ie those in Europe, with jobs, without the stamina of an athelete? It really seems like somewhere along the line there has been a huge inexplicable miscalculation...

[raconteur]

Phil, I think you're solving the wrong problem. The structure is the best thing about the tournaments, and in any case, assuming your estimates of field increase are accurate, even with the shorter levels, the tournaments would last longet than they do at the moment.

Regards,
Richard

[odellthurman]

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In the end, it was decided that we would not have two-day events, with the deciding consideration being the preservation of the integrity of each event.

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Bryan - It doesn't seem like Stars is tremendously concerned with the integrity of multi-table tournaments when one of the final table participants in the $500 WCOOP event openly discusses being coached, and Stars believes that is OK.

[mbpoker]

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I went deep in event 2 but busted around 4am BST with less that a hundred players left, mainly out of tiredness

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4 am BST is 11 PM EST, and 8 PM PST. Surely there would be an uproar from the West coasters if Stars stopped the play at 8 PM.

So what is a good time to stop which will be welcome by Europeans, East coasters, West coasters, and how about Aussies?

[adanthar]

Bryan,

I remember that one of the prior concerns of Stars management when discussing the Stars Million structure was that making it too good would mean Europeans (and some Americans) would find it necessary to skip work the next day if they went deep and therefore wouldn't play it.

Well...mission accomplished. This thing started at 9:30 PM London time. It finished at 1 PM EST - that's 6 PM in London, and as late as 9 PM in the rest of Europe. That's pretty much the worst conceivable scheduling for Europeans, and it's no picnic for Americans, either; everyone with a job now definitely has to miss work.

More importantly, *it's 20.5 hours* (probably up to 22-24 for the ME). You could break the thing for exactly 8 hours in the middle and the outcome would be exactly the same - it'd start Sunday and be over Monday. In the meantime, making people play for 150K when they've been up all night in adrenaline-inducing situations is not going to make for stellar poker or Pokerstars love.

On the other hand, at least Pokerstars definitely isn't rigged.

[Mjafish]

I say just pause it after 10 or 12 hours of play, and resume at the same as the tourney start time the next day.

eg: Tourney starts at 4 pm. Pause play at 2 am, then resume tourney play at 4 pm the next day.

[Jackal69]

I dont mind playing till dawn if necessary - i chopped the Sunday million around 7-8am bst and won the sunday 100r at about the same time... having the end in sight is always a great source of sustinence. I thought the FTOPS 2 day main event was well structured as a model.

Richard - i think both mine and your calcualtions are a little off and that 20 min levels would be perfect especially in the $200 events in providing a decent structure and getting things over by dawn here... I challenge you to play the $200 Razz event and still say the structures are the best thing about the WCOOP [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]