Live deep stack 25/50NL hand

[stan ivey]

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sounds like kid has overpair or flopped JJ for set (but with you having a J its hard to put him on that). 225 is a pretty solid pre-flop raise, clearly strong, but says i dont want callers with drawing hands, so i would think he has JJ, QQ or KK and probably not AA. i would think that eugene might have KQ, maybe even same suit as you, hence the call of a pretty big bet which i don't think he would do with open ender alone (but obv don't know the kid so i can only speculate). i think that i would just call, hoping that no face cards hit the board and the board doesn't pair. a shove is not always a bad play here, as this kid very might well call an all in with an over-pair and if you are indeed beat you have a few outs, but i wouldn't do it. eugene is also somebody to worry about, i think that if he did flop a straight with q9 or 97 he might raise on the turn, so its hard to put him on a hand better than yours, and i think he also would have raised with 1010, JJ or 88. raising to about 5k seems to be a very good option because if u do, and only one smooth call then you are likely good, if you are re-raised by eugene, i might have to put him on J10 or Q9, if both smooth call you would probably have to put eugene on a big draw or pair with draw here and asian kid on an overpair, if asian kid 3-bets you are likely looking at a set. so depending on the feel of these players, i think that the best option would be to put in a raise to about 5k, you might be able to take the pot down right there with that bet, or at least further gauge where your opponents are at in the hand. you also have to think about your intents on the river depending on what the river card is. if your opponent is willing to call a re-raise to 5k he probably has a good enough hand to call a shove for ur 13k or so, so i would say re-raise to 5k, hopefully get out eugene's draw if he has one, and asian kid's bigpair if he does have overpair, with a decision ahead if one of them puts you all in. it's a real tricky situation and you could go either way, a conservative call might be right if the guys seem real strong, but personally i would want to feel out where im at, and if you aren't scared to lose ur 15k it might be the best option for you. tell me if this has been of any help, please post how it went down, i'm sure my hand analysis was really off, but its not so easy to read someone when all you got is a loose description of the hand. hope u won it.

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wtf is this mess of a post

anyways, turn is a call ...i also think u played the flop fine, theres no reason to raise there unless u want to get it in v. pfr on that board, which i think is bad

[cero_z]

Hi tsarast,

So I guess you're wondering if it's now worth protecting your hand vs. the obvious OESD that's likely to be in one player's hand. Although there are other small reasons to raise the turn (kid might call with worse, you may see the river cheaper by raising if Eugene has JT), they are outweighed by these two facts: a)it's more likely that one of the villains is ahead right now than that they're both behind AND will call a raise with a worse hand, and b)the pot (4500) is still only 1/3 of the size of your stack.

Calling here with 13 probable outs to a monster is the clearly correct play, as others have stated. The downside is that you price in a 9. But, that 9 will lose money for sure when the Qd/7d rolls off, and you probably won't lose any more if a different straight rolls off. There are, at maximum, 15 bad cards for you on the river, while there are 13 very good cards, and the other 18 are pretty neutral. So, you're a 2:1 favorite to like the river card, and you should be in a very +EV spot on the river (relatively easy decisions to make), with 5-7k in the pot and 10K left to bet, if you just call on the turn.

Contrast that with raising the turn, which leaves you in the position of risking about 15K in a 4500 pot, where you will either take it down with a hand that may be way ahead, or occasionally get it in as a decent but not overwhelming favorite (like vs. AA) or (slightly more often) as a decent dog (vs. a straight or bigger 2 pair), and you can see why all of the top-notch players who've commented so far have said that it's a super-obvious just-call.

[king_of_drafts]

agh just call. I like flop play too

[Micturition Man]

Am I the only one who thinks that the turn bet of 1/2 pot on such a drawy board reeks of weakness? (Or possibly absurd strength like Q9 with flush draw or something.)

I'm not sure it would push me to raising rather than calling but it would get me closer.

[viffer]

Seats open to all you fools that just call here. 3k pot why not play big pot poker, go for whole stack, if you dont have him beat out draw him, but 15k id want it all, this is live poker, not just numbers where you can actually look at his emotions. Brian you know better then to ask theese donks for advice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[rtc89]

call and fold to serious action on the river unless asian kid is a true idiot. his 1500 bet may be weak or it may that you are drawing dead to a set of jacks.

J8 is not that strong here vs two players. It's ahead of T8, AJ and overpairs. What is Eugene calling with anyway?

[creedofhubris]

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call and fold to serious action on the river unless asian kid is a true idiot. his 1500 bet may be weak or it may that you are drawing dead to a set of jacks.

J8 is not that strong here vs two players. It's ahead of T8, AJ and overpairs. What is Eugene calling with anyway?

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Read the hand people, we have a flush draw to go with the jacks up....

[KRANTZ]

raise flop

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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raise flop

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Yep, now just call turn for all the reasons everybody stated. Apparently Viffer is an absolute idiot, I had always thought that he was a pretty smart player.

[ajaxx]

so wat did they have in the end?