400: What a Sweet Ending

[GiantBuddha]

Posting results in the OP won't help with getting better replies, though.

[QTip]

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Was there a reason you checked the flop? I bet this flop w/air, so I have to bet it with KK, too. Flat calling the turn with the intention of getting some value on the river seems pretty reasonable to me, and that river is a check because you're not getting called by much that you beat here. I think you get more value by betting the flop (all pairs call you) and you're very rarely beaten, but the other guy played it HORRIBLY, so the way you played it saved your stack.

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Thanks for the thoughts Buddha. There are a couple reasons I decided to check the flop.

First, I think we get off track a bit by saying that we bet air here, so we need to bet KK. Cuz, there are also times I check AK and so forth here, so I need to check a big hand here as well. I check 44 and 99 blah blah....the logic can roll both ways.

Anyway, there are really no cards I hate to see (course, an A aint' cool). I think I can create further action from him with a weaker hand by checking here. Also, I like the idea of pot control by checking this flop. We have an spr of like 11 here. Stacking against him here is certainly -EV. Say I bet $25 on the flop and he c/res. That raise will certainly take me into committment land and threaten my stack with only his $80 raise. Then you have a post entitled "400: KK facing a c/r" don't you?

[QTip]

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Bet the flop because worse hands will call (or even raise). A 15/12 shouldn't show up with a 9 here (or AA for that matter, wtf?). His AF of 1.3 indicates he'll call with most pairs here. Would you c-bet this flop with air here? If you usually would, then you have to take value here.

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I have found a 15/12 player in the 400 game to be quite an active player. An AF over 162 hands is quite meaningless. Actually, I'll check this flop with overs against a player like him on this flop more often than not.

[QTip]

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Bet flop? Raise turn? You have no reason to belive you dont have the best hand here...

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Coordi and xrod:

You bet $27 on the flop and he cres you to $90. What are you going to do and why?

[GiantBuddha]

AF does take a while to converge. Still, 15/12/1.whatever is a bit odd. I think this guy suffers from FPS.

If you're checking this flop often with air, then checking with KK sometimes has a purpose. I probably check here like 5%. There aren't many cards which can hurt you here.

That said, if he check raises, I would feel very comfortable calling and getting it in on any turn. If he flat calls, I check behind on turn and value bet river (except when the Ace falls and saves my butt).

[xxrod17xx]

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Bet flop? Raise turn? You have no reason to belive you dont have the best hand here...

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Coordi and xrod:

You bet $27 on the flop and he cres you to $90. What are you going to do and why?

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Well at this point we meet that commitment threshold so I am not moving on here unless i have a plan. Its fold or raise here in my opinion. There are a lot of hands here that raise that you have beat. I think our equity in this pot is better than good..I prob raise all in.

[QTip]

I guess I could sum my flop check up by quoting a couple lines from PNLHE:

1. Good players plan ahead to avoid tough decisions.

2. Avoid being threatened with an all-in when you aren't committed but want to see a show down.

How can we allow him to give us a tough decision? How can we allow him to threaten us with an all in?

Bet.

How can we avoid a tough decision here? How can we avoid being threatened with an all in since we're not committed and want to be at showdown?

Check.

Does it cost us much to check? Not at all. The value we miss if he called the flop can easily be made up and more by inducing bets from weaker hands. Free cards are almost a mute point here, so we're giving up little there as well.

Also, if we bet, we can expect him to make the correct response about 90% of the time.

"Bad nl players make things easy on their opponents by making plays to which the expected response is also the correct response. Bad players also don't plan ahead, and they wander into traps set by their opponents."

I'm a very active stealer in this game. If I were in the sb against me, I could have plenty of 9s. Also, pps and other hands.

[QTip]

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Bet flop? Raise turn? You have no reason to belive you dont have the best hand here...

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Coordi and xrod:

You bet $27 on the flop and he cres you to $90. What are you going to do and why?

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Well at this point we meet that commitment threshold so I am not moving on here unless i have a plan. Its fold or raise here in my opinion. There are a lot of hands here that raise that you have beat. I think our equity in this pot is better than good..I prob raise all in.

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I think we need to reevalute the EV of getting all in with a tight player with a combination of an spr of 11 and an overpair on a drawless board.

[five4suited]

Bet flop, fold turn. A 1.3 AF is awfully low, even if it is only 162 hands.

Edit: If you're an active stealer and the SB is played differently at 400, which it seems to be (I wouldn't know) then I'd say NH.

I also wonder if I'm willing to pay one bet and want to get to showdown, whether I'm better off betting than calling. It would depend how likely it is that SB will check the turn and river, which seems unlikely. You've decided to slow down because you want to get to showdown. Did you also slow down because you felt you might be beat? Would you have called a river bet?

[five4suited]

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I think we need to reevalute the EV of getting all in with a tight player with a combination of an spr of 11 and an overpair on a drawless board.

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I believe it's called bankroll suicide.