25-50 he's checkraising me again

[fslexcduck]

i don't know if i fold or shove here, but just for the record, the K77 hand and this hand basically have nothing to do with each other. and actually i'm more inclined to fold in this hand based on that hand.

[raptor517]

call. /endthread

[FatalError]

[ QUOTE ]
call. /endthread

[/ QUOTE ]

lots of respect for you raptor but isn't calling on this board kind of gross, any 8-A or diamond that doesn't fill me sucks

[FatalError]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know if i fold or shove here, but just for the record, the K77 hand and this hand basically have nothing to do with each other. and actually i'm more inclined to fold in this hand based on that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree that the prior hand makes his ranger tighter and stronger here unfortunately this was on a site where i had ~20 second to decide what to do here =p

[fslexcduck]

yes, that's why i said i'd be more inclined to fold.

but the point was check-raising a K77 board with air to me says very little about their range for check-raising a QJ9s board

[imabigdeal]

so to the people that are saying fold, what do you put villain on? J8 exactly? Q10?

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
yes, that's why i said i'd be more inclined to fold.

but the point was check-raising a K77 board with air to me says very little about their range for check-raising a QJ9s board

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed, it's pretty suicidal to checkraise a flop like this without a hand with equity similar to Q9

[Isura]

I love 3-betting flop given history. Or shoving that turn. What was the exact action in the previous hand?

[Phresh]

[ QUOTE ]
but the point was check-raising a K77 board with air to me says very little about their range for check-raising a QJ9s board

[/ QUOTE ]

I had this typed out earlier but I'm a pussy so I deleted it. I was also toying with the idea of calling because you're either crushed a lot or he probably has air and possibly [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]'s. He has about a PSB left on the river and if you shove the turn he won't call with worse, but will def bluff river given your description. Maybe the pot is so big now that you should shove, but a call seems kinda sexay.

[ike]

After more thought about this hand I think the correct line is definitely to call the flop and shove any turn other than a K,J,T, or 8. Fold the bad turns. The following pstove numbers seem very instructive:

Board: Qd 9d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.608% 48.39% 01.22% 116417 2925.00 { Q9s }
Hand 1: 50.392% 49.18% 01.22% 118303 2925.00 { TT-99, AdTd, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, KTo+, QTo+, J9o+, T9o }

Board: Qd 9d Ts Kc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 18.860% 14.74% 04.12% 1401 391.50 { Q9s }
Hand 1: 81.140% 77.02% 04.12% 7320 391.50 { TT-99, AdTd, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, KTo+, QTo+, J9o+, T9o }

Board: Qd 9d Ts Jc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.756% 28.08% 06.67% 2595 616.50 { Q9s }
Hand 1: 65.244% 58.57% 06.67% 5412 616.50 { TT-99, AdTd, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, KTo+, QTo+, J9o+, T9o }

Board: Qd 9d Ts Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 17.605% 15.64% 01.97% 1383 174.00 { Q9s }
Hand 1: 82.395% 80.43% 01.97% 7113 174.00 { TT-99, AdTd, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, KTo+, QTo+, J9o+, T9o }

Board: Qd 9d Ts 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.516% 31.40% 02.12% 3357 226.50 { Q9s }
Hand 1: 66.484% 64.37% 02.12% 6882 226.50 { TT-99, AdTd, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, KTo+, QTo+, J9o+, T9o }


Board: Qd 9d Ts 4c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 55.527% 55.53% 00.00% 5937 0.00 { Q9s }
Hand 1: 44.473% 44.47% 00.00% 4755 0.00 { TT-99, AdTd, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, KTo+, QTo+, J9o+, T9o }

On the flop our hand is about even money against a somewhat tight checkraise range. We have position and many turn cards drastically change our equity. I think calling the flop in order to make good folds on bad turns is worthwhile.