A hand that a friend asked me to post

[JJH3984]

Mich,

I think I get it the thought proces here now, and I think hero is correct to c/f once he checks if the old man is really that passive. Old very passive men don't bet ATc9c8c boards without AT minimum.

The problem is that since he is passive, he also has a lot more hands in his range before you check that he's calling with but not betting.

So there are two segments of the hand: 1. before you check and 2. after you check and he bets where his range is completely different.

[Yepitis]

I think we can safely fold to a passive old man beating into this pot, why else would we check?

[James.]

hey mitch l,

the turn is the easiest bet/fold in the world. why risk giving a free card to holdings with single [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]s or a straightdraw?

a raise means we're pretty much drawing dead so i'm betting because the board is uberdrawy and folding if it gets popped.

[JJH3984]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can safely fold to a passive old man beating into this pot, why else would we check?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah that's what I said. A check is still wrong though.

[MitchL]

Thanks for your input guys. I am definitely in the bet/fold camp. Though I think it is tempting to fold once a passive bets the turn I would call for 3 reasons.

1. We have only been at the table a couple of hrs. Our read is that we havent seen him raise at all yet. Not sure what this tells us about his propensity to bet the turn when checked to, but I am not just gonna fold tptk to a random, because I havent seen him raise yet.

2. The signal we are sending on the turn can be interpreted by villain 2 ways: a) we are scared of the flush b) We have a pp below the ace. Granted I play in games that are bit more aggressive, I think most villains would feel like their Ace was good once the turn was checked too them.

3. Also, if villain is truly passive we can call the turn and reevaluate the river, (consider a river bet/fold) or at least some of the time see a free showdown by a scared two pair.


All in all, this is an extremely easy bet/fold, but hero in this hand seemed to have some hesitance to accept my advice and I think this was because of the "you had to be there" type of read that one gets when playing live, but my experience is that 2hrs is not enough of a sample to check/fold tptk to a guy who has done nothing but peel the flop.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
A friend pm'ed me this hand and I thought it would be good to post. I wont say my stance on the hand, its mostly for his benefit. Anyway this is either Cbury 6-12 or 8-16. x-post.

I raise red A K UTG. Get several callers including a very passive old man. He never raised anytime with anything.

Flop: A 8c 10c
I bet, two callers including old man.

Turn: 9c
I check, old man bets. I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy is passive. Passive, at least to me, doesn't mean he won't bet an ace when checked to. If you had bet the turn and he raised, then I think you could fold. This guy could easily have the Canterbury Standard here (Axo).

[Hyperrrprank]

Tell your friend he is being results oriented. This time, his opponent did in fact bet and it made him think that his check on the turn was correct. A majority of the time, his opponent will check behind and take a free card, a large number of which could complete his draw.

More money is lost from failing to charge the common drawing and weak made hands than is saved by check folding to the uncommon made flush.