New player choice : Limit or No Limit (special case)

[mornelth]

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Thank you for asking this question, I'm also new to the game and have started on limit amd armed myself with Getting Started In Holdem and Small Stakes Holdem.

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Didn't read the first one, second one is a BIBLE for any player who is starting out. Changed my view of what the whole game was about when I read it first time...

[Gonso]

My recommendation is to forget putting any money in play just yet. If you only have $50, why not just continue at play money and invest in learning the game a little more for now? I think you'll be happier in the long run if you concentrate on the learning the fundamentals right off. The game will open up for your faster than just playing and trying to figure it all out as you go.

For NL, the books you have are ideal, but you'll eventually want Harrington's 2nd book as well - but since you have these I'd start with NL. For limit, go with the two mentioned in the last post - but you might as well start out at NL.

Either way, expect to lose for quite a while.

My feeling is that players at the beginning stages should focus on learning the fundamentals. Experience without the know-how to interpret what you see can be tricky. You sometimes see bad plays pay off in poker, just as you see brilliant plays fail. You need to learn which is which regardless of the result.

[FreddyF]

I did buy a copy of Poker Academy Pro with a view to getting in some practise, the ability to setup specific hand types in the simulator is most useful though I've yet to be able to interpret all the various stats available. Unfortunatly, I very rarely if ever see anyone playing in the limit games online which is a shame and maybe tells me it's obviously not as "fashionable" as no limit. I still haven't worked up the courage to walk into a live card room and play through fear of making a complete fool of myself. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[kabouter]

I don't agree with not depositing anything yet, if he read even a couple pages of small stakes hold em, he is probably better then 50% of the players at the $2nl tables. And playing with play money is totally different than playing with real money.

[Lawman]

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And playing with play money is totally different than playing with real money.

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Other than for basic board reading and learning the software, I'd get off the play money as soon as possible. Players play completely differently from even 0.01/0.02 limit/NL.

[mornelth]

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I don't agree with not depositing anything yet, if he read even a couple pages of small stakes hold em, he is probably better then 50% of the players at the $2nl tables. And playing with play money is totally different than playing with real money.

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Agreed. Play money is good for nothing, really.

[lfairban]

So much to say and so many ways to be missinterpreted.

Most of what has been said previously in this thread is good advice. If it seems contradictory, that is because the subject is so complicated. I'll tell you a little about how I started out.

I started with the play money tables on Party Poker, and did not make a cash deposit for several months. I played almost exclusively NL because the Limit seemed kind of silly. At that time, the local library had few books on poker, so I got ahold of "Play Poker Like the Pros," by Phil Helmuth. I developed a starting hand strategy for the Play Money tables from a No Foldem hand ranking page. I was seeing 45-70% of the flops, totally inappropriate for real money, but much less boring than waiting for a good starting hand. When I got to the point where I could win 300 play dollars per session, I made an initial deposit of $200. Since I had about a month to clear the bonus, I took it slow and played very tight and passive, using mostly the Helmuth method. The advantage is that it is simple and very tight. I spent most of the time waiting for a hand, but since the bonus only requires you to be sitting at the table, this was OK.

I made the bonus, and about broke even otherwise, doubling my bankroll. Then I started opening up and started calling down too many of what I thought were bluffs, and my bottom line began to shrink. I opened up an account on Ultimate Bet, and started playing 1/2 cent and nickle dime blind NL which really helped me clean up my game. I also found the advice from Tanka at Flop Turn River very helpful.

I was doing real good at Party when it shut down the American accounts. I am still trying to get over it. The bonuses were great, like free money every month or so.

For the last three or four weeks, I have been playing Limit almost exclusively on UB after reading several library books on limit. I am just finishing SSHE, eveyone needs to read this for the advice about reading flops and pot size considerations which I believe will translate to NL to a very valuable degree. Limit is actually much more complicated than NL in my opinion, but also much less volitile. If you play nickle dime limit and play NL about as well you might want to stick to the 1/2 cent blind NL tables. In other words, select NL tables that are about a third to a fifth the blind size of the Limit tables you are comfortable with. The Professor suggests that you continue to play a certain percentage of Limit even if you play mostly NL. I am starting to understand why.

If you want more of my advice to a beginning player (from a beginning player, I have only been playing a couple of years) you might check out my poker page. PM me and I'll give you the URL or google lfairban+poker.

Good Luck.

[themchose1]

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Limit is actually much more complicated than NL in my opinion

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no way, I can play 10 limit tables while only 2 at no limit

[HSB]

I'm going to suggest playing no limit rather than limit simply because low stakes limit poker is the most insanely frustrating form of poker known to man.

The variance is high, the long term is longer than you can imagine, and these two things combine to send the frustration factor through the roof.

There are often times when you can't make your opponent make a mistake. You have a good hand, you bet it, you get called down and they catch some crappy flush or whatever and you can't blame them because they were getting the odds.

In NL you can put the calling stations in a position where they are making a mistake and you can completely crush them when they continue to call and don't hit.

[Gonso]

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I don't agree with not depositing anything yet, if he read even a couple pages of small stakes hold em, he is probably better then 50% of the players at the $2nl tables.

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I don't think that's true at all. Reading a book primarily concerning limit hold'em isn't enough to compete at even the 1/2 level of play in NLHE games, at least not anymore.

I do understand the point that any real money game is going to be tougher than play money, but some things don't change at all. Calculating pot odds, keeping track of the money in the pot, and counting outs are critical skills that can be practiced at ANY table - and a lot of newer players haven't even got these basics down before committing money.

Here we're talking about a player just getting started two months ago, and is not even certain which game he wants to study. Obviously the $50 is more valuable to him than to many of us, so why not set that aside at least until he gets that basic odds down first?

There's no rush. Real money games aren't going anywhere anytime soon.