Trbo Fergison Razz hand

[RustyBrooks]

The problem here is that 3 cards to a wheel is more like 77 than it is like AA. Yeah, with 77 you're going to make a lot of money and probably get a lot of action if you make a set, but the more people see the flop with you, the more often you'll lose. It's dis-similar from 77 in that you are never dominated on 4th, of course, so the analogy is not great.

Only about 1 time in 3 are you going to have a hand strong enough that you'll be happy to have a big field on 4th. (when you get an A, 4 or a 6 instead of a 8, 9, T, J, K, Q, I wouldn't mind a 7 or an 8 too much but I would not be happy to have multiple opponents)

I understand your reasoning, about getting it heads up against another good hand, but what you are forgetting is that your opponent who has a good hand will probably play incorrectly on multiple future streets quite often, and that's where your profit comes from.

[Praxising]

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I dunno gona have to snoop around this forum quite a bit more before i really figure out what i think

[/ QUOTE ]And play a lot more. The Fergusen is a bad (but free!) place to figure out Razz because they don't play in any way you'd expect in a cash game or a decent buy-in trny very often. I've cashed and final tabled that one a couple times by playing <u>very</u> TAG Razz. But you still need a boatload of luck!

[22riverrat22]

I like the 77 comparison ALOT its a great way to view the hand. Now why exactly do i wanna isolate with my 77 which chances are are gona look like crap and face unwelcome agression 75 percent of the time when im gona "flop my set" as it were 1 in 4 times...... dont u want to get 4 to one on your money in spots like this? noones gona pay you off with multiple bets on later streets when u raise with an ace and hit 2 wheel cards on 4th n 5th,,,,,,,,,
also limping big starters early seems to allow you the chance to bluff/semibluff more effectively. when antes arent big im trying to play laggy razz limping alot of scare whether it has any teeth behind it or not so i can steal on 4th if oponents brick or bet if i make a good hand.
this style of loose limpy play on 3rd reguardless lends itself to getting me more action when i have a hand and more credibility when im bluffing.
(Shrug?) just some thoughts that seemed to work better than some tag, waiting around, and then getting busted late at hi antes by some doorknob completing with a T and beating my A357BBB.
Im sure its diferent a t higher buy ins but i gotrta figure out how to beat the low ones consistently before i can attempt any of those THX all

[Praxising]

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<font color="green">Im just learning Razz</font>

[/ QUOTE ]
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this style of loose limpy play on 3rd reguardless lends itself to getting me more action when i have a hand and more credibility when im bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like you have it all figured out already. A prodigy!

[RustyBrooks]

Perhaps the 77 isn't a great analogy. Maybe 99 is more like it. A hand that you have a chance to win if you can get it heads up, but if you don't get it heads up, you'll need a pretty lucky flop to take the pot down. Unlike holdem, however, catching a great card on 4th does not really put you in a dominating position for the rest of the hand.

Anyway, you played this hand backwards... limping with strength, betting with weakness. This is bad.

[22riverrat22]

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like you have it all figured out already. A prodigy!

[/ QUOTE ]
Do i detect some sarcasm Prax?
Im looking for constructive criticism here.
I greatly appreciate all the responses that told me 7th is horible, you want to do "this.." instead because "..." that type of feedback i can learn alot from and is why I posted the hand and my thought processes.
I cant even tell if your sarcastic about my tone, the concept itself, or what.
In terms of theory my whole poker career has and will always be filled with lots of overthink, coming to conclusions , tearing them down, repeat.....
just how my brain works
I apologize if this comes off as defensive but im left with an idea that seems to me to be a valuable realization and a sarcastic (?) comment that highlights the idea but leaves me hanging as to why.

[Praxising]

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Do i detect some sarcasm Prax?


[/ QUOTE ]
Just teasing - not meant to make anyone feel bad. Relax, kiddo, this is a good place.

Rusty said: [ QUOTE ]
Anyway, you played this hand backwards... limping with strength, betting with weakness. This is bad.

[/ QUOTE ] I think this is one very salient point. Try it the "raise 3rd" way for a while and see what happens. Experiment with different styles. Gather your own data. Then later on you can make more informed decisions about what works best for you.