200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?

[getitfixed]

I think this is a shove. The only card I see myself folding the turn to is another 10. I like shoving because think gives us the most value. We might pick up the pot here. We def. have a ton of outs to the nuts/winner and who's to say if we call and turn our straight that villan will pay us off? I just think if I'm willing to put ~80 in calling here, I should be willing to shove and "ride the variance train" (I like that wazz).

Oh, and positionshmosition is right. If we call here, we only have ~ 1/3 pot bet left assuming the SB calls as well. If we get it to HU, we have slightly less than half pot. Calling doesn't seem to add up for me.

[jbird]

[ QUOTE ]
just push.


[/ QUOTE ]

[plzbenice]

youre not picking up the pot here ever if u shove, half of the eff stacks are in the middle already and villain checkraisaes preraiser after bet+raise.

calling makes sense since villain will neevr fold when we make the straight but we can fold when the board pairs.

out of a bigger perspective maybe shoving is btter though?

[getitfixed]

Do we think the ONLY hand he C/R here is a set? Ifso, I'd love to play in your regular game!

[wazz]

People are capable of checkraising in this spot with hands like a pair and a gutshot and would fold to your 3bet here as well, so you certainly have fold equity.

[getitfixed]

[ QUOTE ]
People are capable of checkraising in this spot with hands like a pair and a gutshot and would fold to your 3bet here as well, so you certainly have fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more! I think we lose the fold equity e have by calling. I also think we pretty much give away our hand here by calling and lose some equity if we hit the turn.

The more I've thought about this, it's a snap shove for me with 100b.

[plzbenice]

misread post thought it went bet+raise on flop then checkraised by bb.

but anyway will people really fold pair+gutter? sure its not a drawy flop so maybe.


my standard move is also shove. were a little bit ahead of twopair anyway and a lil better than 40/60 dog against set so if he ever has worse and can fold shoving must be correct?

[TheRempel]

You should only ever just call in this spot if your opponents range is exactly a set. Even in that rare situation (assuming he has TT) you will only fold the turn 6/43 times, or about 13% of the time. Otherwise shove all day, you don't need fold equity.

[KexChoklad123]

You have 42% vs TTxx and that is enough to pay 173 to win 230

[Jeff Hwang]

As you said, I would call on the flop, and go all the way if the board doesn't pair on the turn. I don't think the BB is folding to a re-raise, especially since there was a caller in between you, so he probably has something.