Benifits of the straddle

[Rek]

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meh even with all these arguements for why "good" players do it, I'm not convinced. there are other ways to juice the pot when you have a hand then tossing in the straddle.

the only real valid arguement i like is to increase the "fun" of the game. it does spice things up a lot.

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Exactly

[Mook]

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meh even with all these arguements for why "good" players do it, I'm not convinced. there are other ways to juice the pot when you have a hand then tossing in the straddle.

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Really? What are some of your "other ways" for doing this when, as you say, you have a hand? Because if I've seen you for more than a couple of orbits and you're playing ABC 22/17-type poker, believe you me, I'm not putting dime one into a pot you've "juiced" without a very good reason.

Even for your average non-2+2'er, first impressions are extremely powerful at live tables. If the first thing you do is sit down and blind straddle a few pots, people are going to tag you as a "maniac" or an "action junkie" even if you play 22/17 the rest of the time. And you're almost certainly going to get many times more action on your great hands than someone who doesn't see a flop for the first hour and then tries to come out guns blazing.

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the only real valid arguement i like is to increase the "fun" of the game. it does spice things up a lot.

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And my point being that in some games - not all games, not even many games, but in more than you'd think - "spicing things up" can yield an order of magnitude more EV than you're losing through the straddle. Refusing to take advantage of these situations when they pop up simply because you're standing on principle borders on criminal.

Mook

[Albert Moulton]

I average about 6bb/hr live. Putting 2bb into the pot on every orbit (in addition to my blinds) where I will usually fold to any raise, and play OOP in any unraised pot seems like a great way to put a serious dent in my win rate. I just don't think any "loosening up" of the table from my straddle will compensate for the 6bb+/hr extra money that I put in blind from bad position.

However, I kind of like it when others straddle. I lets the pot play bigger when I have good hands. Sometimes, if the straddler likes to over-raise his straddle a lot, I can even deep limp with AA and kill the straddler when he over-raises with 77-AA/AJ+.

Also, metagame is overrated at most live games. The solid regulars won't be fooled. The gambling LAGs and social calling stations won't notice.

Better metagame considerations might be calling with a wider range than expected on the button so you can show down 84s on a 744 flop when you stack some guy with AA in EP who didn't raise enough preflop relative to your effective stacks. Or raising UTG with 78s (planning to fold to a reraise). Or whatever... Straddling blind isn't as good as other means of mixing up your game for "metagame" purposes vs people with whom you play regularly.

[binions]

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I average about 6bb/hr live. Putting 2bb into the pot on every orbit (in addition to my blinds) where I will usually fold to any raise, and play OOP in any unraised pot seems like a great way to put a serious dent in my win rate. I just don't think any "loosening up" of the table from my straddle will compensate for the 6bb+/hr extra money that I put in blind from bad position.

However, I kind of like it when others straddle. I lets the pot play bigger when I have good hands. Sometimes, if the straddler likes to over-raise his straddle a lot, I can even deep limp with AA and kill the straddler when he over-raises with 77-AA/AJ+.

Also, metagame is overrated at most live games. The solid regulars won't be fooled. The gambling LAGs and social calling stations won't notice.

Better metagame considerations might be calling with a wider range than expected on the button so you can show down 84s on a 744 flop when you stack some guy with AA in EP who didn't raise enough preflop relative to your effective stacks. Or raising UTG with 78s (planning to fold to a reraise). Or whatever... Straddling blind isn't as good as other means of mixing up your game for "metagame" purposes vs people with whom you play regularly.

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+1

But button straddling forcing SB to act first preflop (i.e. Mississippi straddle) is not -EV in my experience.

[armen13]

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+1

But button straddling forcing SB to act first preflop (i.e. Mississippi straddle) is not -EV in my experience.

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Good to know.... as I said don't play live often and didn't know about it. Is this fairly common? Is it allowed most places?

[NL Rounder]

The only area where I've seen the Mississippi (button) straddle permitted is in Tunica...and what I witnessed was that the button had first priority to straddle, then the cut-off, etc....all the way down to the traditional straddle position UTG.

[Dromar]

Obviously putting in a blind raise is bad.

And in LHE, it's even worse, since most bad players (at low/mid stakes at least) call too often, and the extra money in the pot from the straddle makes their calls "less bad," or even good on occasion.

However, in specific circumstances, straddling can be profitable (although I suppose this can be said about most things).

[bozzer]

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+1

But button straddling forcing SB to act first preflop (i.e. Mississippi straddle) is not -EV in my experience.

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Good to know.... as I said don't play live often and didn't know about it. Is this fairly common? Is it allowed most places?

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it's allowed in Leeds, where you can straddle from any position. so the guy on my right kept straddling, meaning i was always UTG pf. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[Skleice]

I don't think you can discuss straddle w/o talking about stack size. If you are playing deep then the straddle can benefit the good player who can win bigger pots by outplaying the weak players. However, I play in a home game where a couple donks out of the lot of us play w/ 40-50 bbs in front of them. They always want to straddle cuz they ARE there to gamble. In this case I don't like the staddle because it becomes like a tournament when it's an all in fest. IMO it jacks up the variance factor for the donk and leaves me w/o any play post flop.

[CurryLover]

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+1

But button straddling forcing SB to act first preflop (i.e. Mississippi straddle) is not -EV in my experience.

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Good to know.... as I said don't play live often and didn't know about it. Is this fairly common? Is it allowed most places?

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it's allowed in Leeds, where you can straddle from any position. so the guy on my right kept straddling, meaning i was always UTG pf. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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I sometimes play in Leeds. Do I know you? I play in the game at Napoleons which is run/dealt by Faz.

By the way, this is one of the annoying things about the Mississipi straddle. But when it happens the other way round (i.e. it is the guy on your left who is straddling every hand) it is fantastic. Guess it evens out in the long run...