79 suited in the big blind, I felt priced in here

[Landonfan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
s
t
a
n
d
a
r
d
.

b
e
t
t
i
n
g

a
n
y
w
h
e
r
e

w
o
u
l
d

b
e

r
e
t
a
r
d
e
d
,

s
o

w
o
u
l
d

c
a
l
l
i
n
g

t
h
e

r
i
v
e
r

o
r

f
o
l
d
i
n
g

p
r
e
f
l
o
p
.

[/ QUOTE ]
I

a
g
r
e
e

w
i
t
h

a
l
l

o
f

t
h
i
s
.

[/ QUOTE ]
Y
o
u

g
u
y
s

a
r
e

r
i
d
i
c
u
l
o
u
s
.

[/ QUOTE ]
b
a
n
.

[Xylocain]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
s
t
a
n
d
a
r
d
.

b
e
t
t
i
n
g

a
n
y
w
h
e
r
e

w
o
u
l
d

b
e

r
e
t
a
r
d
e
d
,

s
o

w
o
u
l
d

c
a
l
l
i
n
g

t
h
e

r
i
v
e
r

o
r

f
o
l
d
i
n
g

p
r
e
f
l
o
p
.

[/ QUOTE ]
I

a
g
r
e
e

w
i
t
h

a
l
l

o
f

t
h
i
s
.

[/ QUOTE ]
Y
o
u

g
u
y
s

a
r
e

r
i
d
i
c
u
l
o
u
s
.

[/ QUOTE ]
b
a
n
.

[/ QUOTE ]

t
l
;
d
r

[Smurph64]

miles is back. wondered where he went. Donking is fine imo you are probably going to have to call 2 twice if the pot plays out according to idiot play we have seen so far.

I think people skewed their answers because they saw the hand from past their play point.

Post this hand again stopping on the flop decision in 2 months and lets see what people say.

[B2_eBoogaloo]

[ QUOTE ]
miles is back. wondered where he went. Donking is fine imo you are probably going to have to call 2 twice if the pot plays out according to idiot play we have seen so far.

I think people skewed their answers because they saw the hand from past their play point.

Post this hand again stopping on the flop decision in 2 months and lets see what people say.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. donking flop is bad for two reasons. a) the pfr is 2 to our left, and could blow out the field, reducing value (which is not high anyway on this flop), and b) we are never folding 6 players. This has nothing to do with later action.

[Smurph64]

donking is good because the pfr is 2 to our left and could blow out the field thereby increasing equity as better hands may fold and b) since we are never folding 6 players the idiots will continue to pay off and I get more value if I hit my hand on the turn.

It's a moot point calling two twice is not the best plan either which could have happened easily enough and been priced in each time.

I don't advocate donking draws very much but in this case the downside is minimal in relation to the upside.

[B2_eBoogaloo]

This makes no sense. If we donk the flop, and we get raised, our hand is probably not the better hand.

Betting now has nothing to do with getting called on later streets. That does not add up to a value-bet now. Sure we can value-bet a hand when we make one, which is why we don't bet on the flop.

donking = we hate money

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
donking is good because the pfr is 2 to our left and could blow out the field thereby increasing equity as better hands may fold and b) since we are never folding 6 players the idiots will continue to pay off and I get more value if I hit my hand on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) How does making other players fold increase our equity? Our equity only goes up when players fold hands that gives us outs that we would not normally have. Most of the time, the equity goes to the player with the best hand because of the community card aspect of this game.

b) Wasn't the goal of the first part to make better hands fold? So if you make them fold, they won't be around to pay you off. And if you make hands fold, you're getting a much smaller equity edge (if any at all) so that you cannot say you're making much extra money if you happen to hit your hand.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't advocate donking draws very much but in this case the downside is minimal in relation to the upside.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're looking at it upside down. Donking is bad news.

[Smurph64]

What is our equity here? Can we win this hand with our 7 potential outs or are we drawing dead?

If its four back to you do you call?

I do. There are 27sb in there already before the betting for this round so I already have pot odds to call.

Donking hss zero negative effect on me moneywise here from an output point of view. Whether its 1 and 3 or 2 and 2 or check and 4 I don't really care.


If you are stating that the others will make mistakes that will cost me money by donking and making them play the hand in such a way that they don't donate as much give me some scenarios where that is true.

[Bulletproof Monk]

i play it the same.

c/raising the flop as it played out is never a big mistake.

river is meh... your probly good like ~1/150 here making a fold correct, but i may sanity call this just because of the size of the pot/mistake

ppl suggesting donking the flop need to be banned. im srs.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
What is our equity here? Can we win this hand with our 7 potential outs or are we drawing dead?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your equity is at most about 30%. Against 5 players you lose a little equity based on the large number of runner-runner/2-out draws to boats plus a potential trips with 10 outs on the turn, so you're down to something like 23-25%. Therefore, if you accomplish objective a (get a couple players to fold), your equity will creep up to maybe 27% (most of the extra equity goes to the player with the best hand), and you maybe cash in on a miniscule 2% edge.

If you're going to argue that you make extra money by getting others to fold, you're talking about winning 2% of a 30ish SB pot, or less than 1 SB. You simply don't have a hand that benefits *AT ALL* when others fold.

[ QUOTE ]
If its four back to you do you call?

I do. There are 27sb in there already before the betting for this round so I already have pot odds to call.

Donking hss zero negative effect on me moneywise here from an output point of view. Whether its 1 and 3 or 2 and 2 or check and 4 I don't really care.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting a free card is the most ideal situation with your hand. It's not the best hand, nobody is folding a better hand, you're not helping yourself take down a pot, you're not increasing your implied odds when you hit (the players who would give you action would give you action anyway based on the two cards in front of them, not because they read your hand wrong or anything like that).

[ QUOTE ]
If you are stating that the others will make mistakes that will cost me money by donking and making them play the hand in such a way that they don't donate as much give me some scenarios where that is true.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I'm saying that donking doesn't accomplish what you say it will. Go back to your original points and think them through again. It doesn't make a coherent argument.

Second, I'm saying that donking rarely helps, but could potentially make things worse. Therefore, it's bad news.