HU facing a 170 BB river shove: call or fold?

[luckychewy]

this seems like an interesting hand but the action is messed up. either he limped from somewhere else besides the sb or you didn't check the river.

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
this seems like an interesting hand but the action is messed up. either he limped from somewhere else besides the sb or you didn't check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure the game is HU.

[Bigfoot]

[ QUOTE ]

2) If he already had the flush why is he massively overpotting the river instead of betting an amount that you can call with a Q or J of diamonds. The nuts value bets this river a lot of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

It was mentioned earlier, but Qd or Jd aren't really any different than 2d here. This is a "nuts or nothing" situation because if villain has a diamond other than the ace he can win a lot of showdowns in a big pot simply by checking behind where it is unlikely a worse hand would call a value bet.

[aislephive]

If the diamond came on the turn and he raised there would definitely be a difference between the 2 :[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here, since when you call the turn raise he has to put you on some sort of flush, and could bluff with a weak diamond. But here, I think Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] = 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here because his river shove is the Ad or nothing. If he had rivered a small flush here he will think he got lucky and rivered the best hand after bluffing and check behind.

This is a really interesting hand, it comes down to how capable he is of bluffing nearly 200bbs on the river like this. His line really doesn't make a lot of sense, but at the same time some guys just aren't capable of making huge bluffs like this, or at the least it's very unlikely making a fold correct.

[luckychewy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this seems like an interesting hand but the action is messed up. either he limped from somewhere else besides the sb or you didn't check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure the game is HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol im so dumb. that would explain it.

wrt the hand i'm gonna have to agree with raptor in terms of all diamonds below an ace being the same in most instances, and this being mainly a feel dependent spot. i would lean more towards a call though in this case because we have the nut non-nut diamond(lol) and if he does have a worse diamond shoving for whatever reason we win. i also don't think he's raising the turn with the bare A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] very often if ever, so i guess it boils down to 1) how often is he completing AXs pf? and 2) is he capable of making a bluff this big?

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this seems like an interesting hand but the action is messed up. either he limped from somewhere else besides the sb or you didn't check the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure the game is HU.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol im so dumb. that would explain it.

wrt the hand i'm gonna have to agree with raptor in terms of all diamonds below an ace being the same in most instances, and this being mainly a feel dependent spot. i would lean more towards a call though in this case because we have the nut non-nut diamond(lol) and if he does have a worse diamond shoving for whatever reason we win. i also don't think he's raising the turn with the bare A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] very often if ever, so i guess it boils down to 1) how often is he completing AXs pf? and 2) is he capable of making a bluff this big?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I agree with this completely.

I think the likelyhood that he 1) raises the flop w/ a nut flush draw 2) that he raises Axs preflop almost always 3) the fact that he probably rarely raises just an Ad on the turn, all of these make it close, but a call in my mind.

Good hand to post tho.

[Big_Jim]

Tough spot, but I think I call it.

It doesn't really look like you can call this bet, so I think there's a pretty good chance he's bluffing.

Of course, there are lots of guys who would never make a bluff like this.

It'd be so nice, if you had some history, but I'm really leaning towards a call, especially given preflop and flop/turn combo.

[luckychewy]

because i'm a loser and i was bored i was just looking through the best of thread and came across this thread which i have read before but it just clicked to me that it applies here. any idea which realm he might be on here, fwf? http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/show...=14&fpart=1

[KRANTZ]

who was villain?

i think 90% of average 5/10 players turn up with the nuts here.

[aejones]

i might fold

is it wrong that i think a straight flush is more likely than the bare ace here?