live misclick v. thetakeover 25/50 nl LIVE, 300bb deep...

[Ship Ship McGipp]

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given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake

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why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand,

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why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it?

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but 1700 might have!

[lapoker17]

i think you, ZJ and garland should have a threesome.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

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i think you, ZJ and garland should have a threesome.

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you're on fire

[Stinger88]

yeah I think you should check the flop against a good, tricky player like Nick

[AcidKnight]

I think reraising preflop is way better than flat calling. You say "oh, well since UTG opened smaller than normal, his range is probably wider than usual for 3-betting an UTG raiser" and then you choose to flat call his reraise while still not really having much of an idea about where he's at.

I also agree with everyone else that betting that flop seems pretty bad, not becuase you might not have the best hand, but becuase of how your hand will look (pretty much exactly like QQ-77) and the difficult positions that Nick and the button might put you in becuase of this information that they have about your hand that you lack about theirs.

[dlpnyc21]

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given the questions in this hand, i feel betting the flop is excruciatingly terrible, like a monumental mistake

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why--i think it makes the hand a lot easier to play. If I bet 2k on this flop, I take control of the hand,

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why would betting 2k on the flop make it so much easier to play and give you so much more control of the hand than 1200 did? because betting 1200 certainly didnt help you at all did it?

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because betting 2k makes it more expensive for nick to cr this flop (he would need to make it something like 8k, making my decision shove/fold, rather than call/shove/fold. by betting 1200, which I think is definitely a lot different than 1700, it allows him to bluff cr more cheaply.

Do you not think his range is wider here than if I bet 2k on this flop and he cr'd to like 7500?

If I check and button bets, is my plan to donk a non AKQ non spade turn and get it in? Also it puts me in a lot of spots where I have to check call down here which I'm not sure is that fun v. the btn.


What do you guys think nick's range is here given the way he played the hand?

Thanks, sorry for all the questions, this was a confusing hand.

Also, if you assume the flop bet was bad (which I do not necessarily agree with--I think my underbet was a lot worse), what do you do given action?

Thanks,
dlpnyc21

[Ansky]

Agree w/ consensus... check flop.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

im going to save this thread a whole lot of time bc i don't want to study for this test.

your range for cc'ing pre is v narrow, something like 88-QQ AQs... then sometimes AA/KK, AK, 66-77, but no doubt the latter are less likely than the former.

the button's range is probably similar.

when nick checks the flop, he gets relative position back- that is, he likely views you as a player who will bet most of those hands on the flop "to find out where you're at" or for value, or whatever, becuase i've never played with you but from a dozen posts i've read of you on this board iknow thats what 'level' your'e on, so with an hour or more of play, nick likely knows the same. that said, nick's c-bet here should ahve a very low % of working. it's not a great board to c-bet if you'r enot goign to shove turn or river, because a TON of you and the buttons range either got really healthy and wants to play for stacks, or likes the flop enough to peel at least one street.

becasue of that, i think nick's flop check looks good with nearly his entire range- that which wants to bluff, and that which wants to re evaluate (perhaps the only hand i would argue should lead this flop in nick's case is tens full).

if he thinks one of you will bet, he'll have a ton of options with his entire range, air can raise or fold depending how he views the bet, the nuts can raise, medium strength hands can PC.

when nick CRs, his hand is traditionally tens full+ or AA. concievably after yoru flop bet, he can CR two aces i suppose- expecting to play for stacks against any face card pocket pair; trying to paly it fast to get the most obviously, although as i said it's weighted to the two aces more than two queens- i can't imagine him CRing two queens here.

this is a big long drawn out boring post about absolutely nothing other than when you bet, there are more combinations of the obvious hands that you have JJ, QQ, KK than the less obvious hands that you have TT, 88.

betting the bottom range of your hand that doesn't want to put a bunch of bets in on a bunch of streets here just sucks really badly, and the fact taht you feel like you can't check it for some reason and awnt to define it just scares the bejesus out of me.

[dlpnyc21]

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Agree w/ consensus... check flop.

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ok...so flop is a check. what do you do, afterwards, given my awkward flop bet? what is nick's range given action? thanks,
dlpnyc21

[AcidKnight]

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im going to save this thread a whole lot of time...

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Good post