Mike Caro's Small Blind Essay Contest

[defence18]

I think he is greatly regarding position. From reading the article you linked, I got the impression that Caro was mainly discussing play when folded around to the blinds. Other than that, when would the SB consider raising? Obviously with AA or KK, but Caro discusses that. Also, when there is a late position limper, but Caro again discusses that. And considering that most BB will automatically call a SB raise, the SB is at a positional disadvantage. I don't see any other scenario in which a SB would "routinely" raise. Maybe to isolate a late position raiser. But in that case, I think Caro would argue that it is best to call if you have a raising hand, possibly getting in the extra money from a loose BB call, and then getting a check-raise in on the flop after the LP raiser continuation bets.

[SplawnDarts]

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I don't think Mr. Caro's thinking very much about position. Notice that he only addresses the SB instead of THE blinds. I think he's thinking along the lines of the extra money it costs to raise from that position instead of the BB. His use of 'routinely' must count for something also.

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I can't imagine he'd be thinking about anything else. Let's suppose position was erased, namely there would be no action after your raise (imagine 2 small bets puts eveyone all-in).

Then you would chose to raise any hand you felt had an edge against the field. Only with hands that were a dog against the field, but not a 0.5 small bet dog, would you call. That's the exact oposite of the advice Caro's advising. So position pretty much HAS to be the issue.

[Mr. Pulaski]

In responce to Mike's question.
I think that primarily the mistake made by raising too often in the SB is a reflection of setting yourself up to be playing in pots consistently out of position. Even with Pocket A's like Mr. Caro explained alot of dissappointment can come down on the flop. For example: a flop of 3 hearts when you are holding AdAc can be devistating. The problem you are now faced with is that you cant really give up the lead by checking, and when you bet out, you are doing so blindly because you are first to act for the remainder of the hand. This can get you into alot of trouble when others flop monsters on you and simply call you down. If you do decide to check and someone in later position bets out, you are forced with a very tough decision and will likely decide to fold. This can be very detrimental to your bank roll and is the reason why calling in the SB is USUALLY the best move. It is really just your best defense at not throwing away extra bets when you do not have to and further shows the power that position really plays in all types of poker. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[ReTodd]

Is any of this supposed to apply to SB vs BB situations where BLIND STEALING is possible?

[Howard Beale]

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I don't think Mr. Caro's thinking very much about position. Notice that he only addresses the SB instead of THE blinds. I think he's thinking along the lines of the extra money it costs to raise from that position instead of the BB. His use of 'routinely' must count for something also.

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I can't imagine he'd be thinking about anything else. Let's suppose position was erased, namely there would be no action after your raise (imagine 2 small bets puts eveyone all-in).

Then you would chose to raise any hand you felt had an edge against the field. Only with hands that were a dog against the field, but not a 0.5 small bet dog, would you call. That's the exact oposite of the advice Caro's advising. So position pretty much HAS to be the issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not convinced. He specifically refers to the SB ONLY. I think that has some significance. Besides the extra money it costs to raise (which affects the profitability of the play) the only other thing I can think of is the presence of the BB whose action can't be predicted. IOW, the BB may decide to raise.

Nice responses so far, all. Good discussion.

[Howard Beale]

For those who might be interested here is the latest installment.

I'll try to remember to post the link to the final column in a week or two.

[Mike]

ditto - The only reasonable defense that can be made is a raise will make all previous players contesting the pot suddenly realize they made a mistake and fold - fat chance.

[Mason Malmuth]

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Now I'm going to tell you the most important thing you can ever learn about playing the small blind: You should usually just call if you have a playable hand, even a fairly strong one. Even if you have a pair of aces to start with in hold 'em, you should often consider just calling. You'll usually overrule this consideration and decide to raise, but a call isn't out of the question. An exception would be if you have a pair of aces and there are at least two other callers already involved in the pot or if the lone caller came from a late position, making your raise seem like a natural power play, whether or not you have a strong hand. Then you should almost always raise.


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Hi Howard:

The answer to this is very simple. You should make the play that has the highest expectation and that means that you should be doing some raising out of the small blind and some reraising as well. Part of the reason for this is to make sure the big blind doesn't play in short handed situations.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Howard Beale]

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Now I'm going to tell you the most important thing you can ever learn about playing the small blind: You should usually just call if you have a playable hand, even a fairly strong one. Even if you have a pair of aces to start with in hold 'em, you should often consider just calling. You'll usually overrule this consideration and decide to raise, but a call isn't out of the question. An exception would be if you have a pair of aces and there are at least two other callers already involved in the pot or if the lone caller came from a late position, making your raise seem like a natural power play, whether or not you have a strong hand. Then you should almost always raise.


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Hi Howard:

The answer to this is very simple. You should make the play that has the highest expectation and that means that you should be doing some raising out of the small blind and some reraising as well. Part of the reason for this is to make sure the big blind doesn't play in short handed situations.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

And hi to you Mason!

Personally, I do plenty of raising out of the SB and one of the reasons is that I absolutely LOATHE giving the BB a free look at the flop. The reason I posted Mike Caro's contest article is because I couldn't figure out reasons that I might want to change my style so I brought it here for others to discuss.

I'll put up the link to the finished series when it's published.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

From what I am led to believe about Mike Caro, isn't this a shockingly fast turn-around on getting the contest finished, assuming he comes through?