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#11
10-11-2006, 05:35 AM
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Re: This TAG move smells
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ya, given your description, I don't get your call at all? [/ QUOTE ] Check-min-raise on a drawy flop is just almost never a decent hand from a "solid" player. I figured he pretty often had clubs or a very weak ace that he'd fold, and in any case I have 5 outs as backup. [/ QUOTE ] Dude, he's 16/8. He's not defending his blind with Ace-rag. If he's got an Ace it's more than likely a very good one. And, he doesn't defend with 2 low clubs very often. Usually it's going to be 2 suited broadways when he defends. His suited club range on this board is destroying you because he often has a hand that dominates you, in addition to the club draw. I started making money against these 16/8 players when I started folding everything but the near nuts or strong draws when they played back at me. Maybe 1 out 10 guys with those stats will adjust and bluff more, but the other 9 guys will go on playing their normal nitty game. 
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#12
10-11-2006, 07:15 AM
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Re: This TAG move smells
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ya, given your description, I don't get your call at all? [/ QUOTE ] Check-min-raise on a drawy flop is just almost never a decent hand from a "solid" player. I figured he pretty often had clubs or a very weak ace that he'd fold, and in any case I have 5 outs as backup. [/ QUOTE ] lol not true at all. Personally I would fold flop if this is the first time we've tangled(as much to stop myself from spewing later as putting him on a huge hand) but if this is your range for him I don't see what else you can do other than bet turn once you get there. You either have the best hand and should protect it or need to fold his weak Ace. You also don't want to be faced w/ a large river bet on a blank. If you get c/r all in no biggie because you are pretty much always drawing dead. Paul
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#13
10-11-2006, 07:50 AM
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Re: This TAG move smells
I like checking behind at this point, and folding to any bet on the river. It just doesn't seem to be worth any more of my money without improvement.
I think flop call is ok, but only on the basis of odds and position.
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#16
10-11-2006, 10:23 AM
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Re: This TAG move smells
if he's really tight, just fold the flop.
i check behind on the turn--he might have a weak ace he's worried about (which would require a 3rd barrel from you to get him to fold), or a big hand played strangely. it seems that rarely is this a flush draw and almost never a bluff with a pair of Jacks.
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#17
10-11-2006, 10:36 AM
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Re: This TAG move smells
[ QUOTE ]
Check-min-raise on a drawy flop is just almost never a decent hand from a "solid" player. I figured he pretty often had clubs or a very weak ace that he'd fold, and in any case I have 5 outs as backup. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not really sure that I agree with this range given his stats and your description, but obviously I wasn't at the table. Since you assign him this range you pretty much have to fire at turn and can very safely fold to a raise. However, this goes to a question I asked yesterday that I didn't get too much feedback on (maybe its cause its too general and can't really be defined like this): 1. How often do bad laggros attempt to check/raise two consecutive streets? What does it mean their hand? 2. How often do tight / regulars attempt to check/raise two consecutive streets? What does it mean about their hand?
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#19
10-11-2006, 11:45 AM
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Re: This TAG move smells
I was rethinking my range and maybe it's a bit off. I actually think it's more likely he has something like 88 or TT - a pair that missed it's set but is trying something to get me to fold my air that I check-raised.
I guess that would suggest checking behind the turn & river, fold to any bet. Also, maybe checking the flop is cool? Hmmm..
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#20
10-11-2006, 01:08 PM
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Re: This TAG move smells
[ QUOTE ]
I was rethinking my range and maybe it's a bit off. I actually think it's more likely he has something like 88 or TT - a pair that missed it's set but is trying something to get me to fold my air that I check-raised. I guess that would suggest checking behind the turn & river, fold to any bet. Also, maybe checking the flop is cool? Hmmm.. [/ QUOTE ] bet flop, check turn, why do you want to get tricky? Most of the time these 16/8s are playing very straight-forward.
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