Torre is back... edit... NOT

[tuq]

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Is Billy Martin still alive? He could hire and fire him one last time before he doesn't know what he's doing any more.

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He's dead.

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How did the old joke go? He's the only guy to ever die sliding into home? Something like that.

[mo42nyy]

yea suggesting he might not be as good as he was in the past is a complete insult. Oh yea except for the fact that its true.The truth hurts sometimes.

[mo42nyy]

whats the record for al vs nl in interleague the last few years not the omg the rockies swept the yankees this year
or the rockies had the best interleague record last year (even though for the hole season they sucked)

Like i said I give the rockies credit for taking advantage of their breaks.It doesnt mean they didnt get a ton of them.

[Mondogarage]

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I've done a lot of thinking about this in the last 2 hours and have come to this conclusion:

The Yankees SHOULD have resigned him at 7.5 mil with a team option for 7.5 mil that is gt'd if he wins the AL. This keeps the players happy, encourages Posada, Rivera and A-Rod to resign and doesn't put a mark on the organization.

What they did is just classic Steinbrenner. It was a complete slap in the face of Torre. Asking him to accept a pay cut is asking him to admit "I'm not as good as I used to be." It's a joke. A lot of us are too young to remember the old days of the menacing Steinbrenner, but I know from studying Yankee history that he used to do this [censored] to managers all the time. How many times did he fire and hire Billy Martin for Pete's sake?

this is the old George coming out for one last time

Instead they have put a mark on the organization and pissed the players off. Who is closer to Torre than Posada and Rivera? Stupid [censored] move.

If they were going to insult him and low-ball him then they should have told him right away they didn't want him back then this stupid 10-day process. That would have been ok in everyone's eyes.

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Thank you. That's all I was trying to say.

[Thremp]

Mondo,

Instead of arguing with your Aceshigh level of understanding, I'm going to insult you.

U R IDIOT.

Though since I pity your soul. Most of the things you mention are results oriented and highly variable with significant regression to the mean in each year. Relief ERAs swing wildly along with fielding on teams. Granted the Rockies are a very good fielding team, but you said it yourself that they had the all-time highest... Are they the all-time best? How often does the all-time best even put up numbers indicative of the fact? You seem to grasp little comprehension of the difference between the leagues, efficiency of sports betting markets as an indicator of the disparity, not to mention sample size issues.

In addition you rag on the Yanks farm system which is pretty effing retarded. Cano is the 2nd best 2B behind Utley, who is one of the best baseball players periods. Cano is a top level talent. You also somehow find a way to disparage a MLB avg CFer who hasn't even hit his arb years which shows a fundamental lack of understanding of value.

[Mondogarage]

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Mondo,

Instead of arguing with your Aceshigh level of understanding, I'm going to insult you.

U R IDIOT.

Though since I pity your soul.

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Save your pity for someone who needs it, like your wife or girlfriend.

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Most of the things you mention are results oriented

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Of course. But then, baseball isn't poker. Maybe that's the real problem here -- that most of you are approaching this as sports gambling poker players who are overapplying the principles of not being results oriented. Baseball games aren't dealt from decks of cards or dice rolls.

Yes, statistics like bullpen team ERA may be highly variable, and may serve as a lousy predictor of future success. However, it's a decent indicator, when compared against the same statistic applied to other teams, of who actually performed better over that time period. Do I think the Rockies relievers are the BEST relief pitchers in baseball? Of course not. But they performed the best over that period of time, which means that over that period of time, they were better than other bullpens. Highly variable, but historical events are not variable. Historical events are carved in stone.


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In addition you rag on the Yanks farm system which is pretty effing retarded.

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Actually, I kept asking people to tell me who in the Yankees farm system would be there to fill the holes. If you choose to take that as "ragging", that's your interpretation, but not what I said.

Cano is a very nice player -- but not the dead cert HOFer than the other schome was claiming him to be. He may someday be so...but no, he's not there yet. For the same reason you disparage me for talking down Melky (e.g., not in arbitration years), his claim that Cano is HOF talented is equally misplaced.

Am I wrong in my assessment of Cabrera? Possibly, but I don't see him becoming an all star caliber CFer. I'm willing to be wrong.

[Franchise 60]

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I'm willing to be wrong.

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Finally, a well thought out and correct point.

[Triumph36]

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I've done a lot of thinking about this in the last 2 hours and have come to this conclusion:

The Yankees SHOULD have resigned him at 7.5 mil with a team option for 7.5 mil that is gt'd if he wins the AL. This keeps the players happy, encourages Posada, Rivera and A-Rod to resign and doesn't put a mark on the organization.

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Why does Joe Torre deserve a raise? For only having Luis Vizcaino develop a dead arm instead of being out for the season?

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What they did is just classic Steinbrenner. It was a complete slap in the face of Torre. Asking him to accept a pay cut is asking him to admit "I'm not as good as I used to be." It's a joke. A lot of us are too young to remember the old days of the menacing Steinbrenner, but I know from studying Yankee history that he used to do this [censored] to managers all the time. How many times did he fire and hire Billy Martin for Pete's sake?

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He kept Billy Martin on the Yankees' payroll through a lot of those years. I don't understand why it's a slap in the face to offer a guy being paid almost 3 times more than any other manager to be paid only double what the top manager is making.

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Instead they have put a mark on the organization and pissed the players off. Who is closer to Torre than Posada and Rivera? Stupid [censored] move.

If they were going to insult him and low-ball him then they should have told him right away they didn't want him back then this stupid 10-day process. That would have been ok in everyone's eyes.

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You spin it how you want to - the Yankees can spin it that they wanted Torre back. Remember, this contract offered incentives that would pay Torre MORE if he achieved them. I think Torre was done - and I think it happened when Steinbrenner issued the 'win or you're fired' edict. He looked like a broken, defeated man on that bench - and while I'm not one to interpret from that all sorts of ominous portents for the Yankees based on the manager's expression, he looked like he'd had it, and I don't blame him.

[Karak567]

You know why he kept Billy Martin on the payroll, right? It wasn't out of a kind heart and generous spirit.

That said, while I agree that Torre might not be the best manager for this team, keeping the players happy is more important. Lure those FAs back then you can make a managerial move. Instead they have pissed everyone off.

[sylar]

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In addition to Buster Olney's article, Ed Price and Bill Madden have a little more.

Torre objected to the pay cut and the one-year deal based on his record, which includes 1,173 regular-season wins as a Yankee, second only to Joe McCarthy among managers in the club's history. But this wasn't a negotiation. After that was made clear, Torre thanked Steinbrenner and the rest of the men in the room for the opportunity to manage the team.

Everybody in the room stood up and exchanged handshakes, and Torre and Cashman shared a hug.

It all took less than an hour.

"We all want you back," Hal Steinbrenner added, "and we hope you'll accept this offer." ...

Once they got over their initial shock, everyone in the office got up and shook Torre's hand. Upon extending his hand to The Boss, Torre said: "I want to thank you for these 12 years. It's been great."

"We appreciate everything you've done for us," George Steinbrenner said. "You'll always be a Yankee."


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