Heisenb3rg's guide to exploiting LAG's HU

[MicroBob]

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This is awesome, sir. My one minor disagreement is with the "throw them a bone" strategy. While this might be good advice against a lag at 10/20, I don't think it is especailly applicable to the 1/2-3/6 LAG - at these levels the LAGS aren't 'thinking' enough to not run more bluffs, in fact they are undisciplined enough to try even harder.

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Seth, I think Hesisenberg's advice translates even to smaller stakes. You're not levelling these people, you're just sheparding them. You can lead these players by the neck to wherever you want them to go. Its just a nice little coincidence that it also works as a starting point against tougher lags.

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I have all too often succeeded in getting a super-LAG to slowdown at 2/4 or 3/6 after calling their bluff with my crappy 22.
Heisen's advice on 'throwing them a bone' definitely applies at 3/6 and lower imo.
not all super-LAG's are just ultra-hyper maniacs with zero clue of what's happening. You beat them on their bluff with a bad hand and they can see that you did that and will adjust.

Sometimes they will even get up and leave the table possibly deciding that their gig is up and they've been found-out or just out of anger at not being able to win the pot when they were sure they could make you fold again.

The meta-game/psychology stuff is definitely worth considering.

[vmacosta]

hberg,
I thought this was an excellent post even if I didn't agree with all of it (mostly I'm just in a phase where I despise the bluff-inducing wawb calldown lines). please keep posting your thoughts and don't worry about people adjusting to you due to your posts--anybody who could do this properly already knew most or all of the stuff you were saying anyhow.

[Heisenb3rg]

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hberg,
I thought this was an excellent post even if I didn't agree with all of it (mostly I'm just in a phase where I despise the bluff-inducing wawb calldown lines). please keep posting your thoughts and don't worry about people adjusting to you due to your posts--anybody who could do this properly already knew most or all of the stuff you were saying anyhow.

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Thanks, please reply where you don't agree with something I wrote. Im not 100% positive on everything I wrote.. Plus I was fairly ambiguous in a lot of parts so people may be taking what im saying too far.

IE the throw them a bone concept, Im only talking about the very very close decisions..
For WA/WB lines, im mostly advocating waiting to a later street to raise hands you wouldn't even raise period against a tighter player.
When I say "medium strength hand" I meant bottom/middle pair (it really depends on the board), someone could interpret that as a pair of aces.


I've c/c, c/c, c/r a pair of aces weak kicker against certain lags. Whereas with a very powerful hand, this is awful because you want to get agressive early in case they also have a very strong hand.

Anything in particular you dont agree with plz let me know so I clarify or discuss.

[sethypooh21]

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This is awesome, sir. My one minor disagreement is with the "throw them a bone" strategy. While this might be good advice against a lag at 10/20, I don't think it is especailly applicable to the 1/2-3/6 LAG - at these levels the LAGS aren't 'thinking' enough to not run more bluffs, in fact they are undisciplined enough to try even harder.

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Seth, I think Hesisenberg's advice translates even to smaller stakes. You're not levelling these people, you're just sheparding them. You can lead these players by the neck to wherever you want them to go. Its just a nice little coincidence that it also works as a starting point against tougher lags.

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I have all too often succeeded in getting a super-LAG to Heisen's advice on 'throwing them a bone' definitely applies at 3/6 and lower imo.

...

The meta-game/psychology stuff is definitely worth considering.

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Oh, I don't disagree, I just think it's on the low end of the importance scale vs. most of the LAGS we tend to play against, IME.

[vmacosta]

These are tyhings I thought were gold:
"Semi bluffing the turn is still profitable against many LAG’s, even if they are somewhat showdown bound. This is because their range is often huge, so they have so many hands they can’t showdown compared to ones they can. Your goal isn’t to fold a pair or maybe even ace high, it’s to fold his hands that totally missed."

"When the board is very coordinated and connected, ace high is often no good, no matter how loose or aggressive they are."

Here are some things I wasn't crazy about:

"Or raising the flop on WA/WB boards without a very good hand. This is a huge mistake. Getting 3-bet is horrible with your weak hands, but the biggest downfall no matter what you have is it induces them to bluff less."

"Let them bluff into you and maintain the lead if you have a strong enough hand to raise, but not one you want tons of action with (IE TPGK with a king). Either raising on the river or the turn can depend on the player. If they will 3-barrel bluff frequently and showdown light, waiting to the river in position is often correct. Waiting to the turn is probably best if the pair is lower than a king, because of scare cards, as well as the increased value in folding overcards on the turn."

you also said some pretty ambiguous stuff about whether to open J9s type hands. My rule of thumb is that if nobody left to act's stats are over 50 vpip or 30 pfr I don't change my opening standards.

[Heisenb3rg]

k, nothign I can really adress there.. You like jamming flops with TPGK type hands? How come? (assume we're not talking about a maniac, then TPGK becomes a monster on dry boards)

"2)
Try to avoid lines that jam up the pot that will leave you in tough decisions whether to showdown or not.
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Is my least favorite part and wished I re-worded it. I should have emphasiesd if you are facing two very very close to equal EV decisions between calling and raising.
If your hand clearly has equity edge and will get called, raise it.. figure out to do after your 3-bet.

Betting turns to induce raises is my favorite part of the guide, because I dont see people do it enough.

Thanks for kind words.

[aargh57]

Bump. If you suck like me, re-read this again and try to suck less tonight, or if you missed this when Heis originally posted it this is a must read.

[Apanage]

Nice post as always.
But I hope you do realize that blind defence against you don´t make us stay around.
It is handling LAG:s well HU that make us do that.So I´m not sure of that your change of posting strategy will do you any good.

[Heisenb3rg]

Looking back on this a couple months, two things I dont think I emphasized enough:

1) This is all very opponent specific you have to be able to asses if my advice applies to a particular lag your facing. EG against solid hand reading LAG's who will value rape you as well as bluff you, you often have to put in raises early and with your marginal hands and then make the tough decisions to balance your play. My guide didnt really cover this type.

2) It's important to give more action with your good hands to a LAG post flop than you would another palyer.

Apange:
I regret almost every long post I make that may improve my opposition.. But I love discussing strategy and it's improved me as a player overall... So it's a double edged sword.

[Wolfram]

Heisenberg,

Great article. I'm only 2/3rds through but I wanted to say thanks for all the work.