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#11
07-11-2007, 09:53 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
Mmm... I dont understand how does being "WA/WB" lead you into a call here. I am not saying its wrong in this situation, I am just saying its wrong in general. Deciding what to do, being "WA/WB" is completely irrelevant. Say flop is 22Q and the action on the flop goes the same. You still are WA/WB but the only legitimate hands that a good tag can have that beat you are 22 and QQ. Now you decide if he is calling your 3bet with a hand like KQ/AQ or folding them. And how much of his range are these hands. Based on this you make a decision to raise, call or fold, not on being WA/WB. As played fold river, its a clear ten, rarely KcJc or Jc9c. [/ QUOTE ] ok, I understand. But I didn't say he was good, just that he didnt play alot of hands, I mean what good player lets the time run out several times and also post SB and BB instead of waiting for BB? 
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#12
07-11-2007, 09:56 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
I agree, I think it was the way he bet that made me think he was weak, he quickly called my raise preflop, and flop/turn/river bets were also made fast, I just didn't believe him for some weird reason... It turned out that he was on a pure bluff with A4, maybe he watched when some other guy bluffed me out of some pots, but it doesn't seem like it cause he was folding out of time pretty much. The deep stacks made me a little scared, maybe I should have reraised flop to see where I'm at. After I called the flop raise I don't like folding the turn cause he could be bluffing or have a queen. [/ QUOTE ] Nh, but be aware that your river call is a bit thin against most opponents. Dont raise with the intention of finding out where you are - it will only make your opponents play better against you. Folding turn was never an option IMHO.
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#13
07-11-2007, 09:57 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
This is really bad. You were extremely lucky in this situation. There is nothing about this play that seems weak to me. If anything, you should have made your decision on the turn. I'd refrain from making calls like this in the future. [/ QUOTE ] yup I know I did't play it well thats why I posted it, but what line is best in the future? rerasie on flop? as I said I don't like folding on turn...
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#14
07-11-2007, 10:00 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I agree, I think it was the way he bet that made me think he was weak, he quickly called my raise preflop, and flop/turn/river bets were also made fast, I just didn't believe him for some weird reason... It turned out that he was on a pure bluff with A4, maybe he watched when some other guy bluffed me out of some pots, but it doesn't seem like it cause he was folding out of time pretty much. The deep stacks made me a little scared, maybe I should have reraised flop to see where I'm at. After I called the flop raise I don't like folding the turn cause he could be bluffing or have a queen. [/ QUOTE ] Nh, but be aware that your river call is a bit thin against most opponents. Dont raise with the intention of finding out where you are - it will only make your opponents play better against you. Folding turn was never an option IMHO. [/ QUOTE ] ah ok thanks, so flop and turn was ok, but i should have folded river.
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#15
07-11-2007, 10:01 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
This is really bad. You were extremely lucky in this situation. [/ QUOTE ] I think you are exaggerating a bit. I'd say this hand is -EV, but not horribly so. Disclaimer: <--- Callstation
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#16
07-11-2007, 10:07 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This is really bad. You were extremely lucky in this situation. There is nothing about this play that seems weak to me. If anything, you should have made your decision on the turn. I'd refrain from making calls like this in the future. [/ QUOTE ] yup I know I did't play it well thats why I posted it, but what line is best in the future? rerasie on flop? as I said I don't like folding on turn... [/ QUOTE ] I never advocated folding on the turn. I said make your decision, which means push/fold. You can do this on the flop too, but generally calling with a hand like this isn't the greatest on a board like this.
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#17
07-11-2007, 10:24 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is really bad. You were extremely lucky in this situation. There is nothing about this play that seems weak to me. If anything, you should have made your decision on the turn. I'd refrain from making calls like this in the future. [/ QUOTE ] yup I know I did't play it well thats why I posted it, but what line is best in the future? rerasie on flop? as I said I don't like folding on turn... [/ QUOTE ] I never advocated folding on the turn. I said make your decision, which means push/fold. You can do this on the flop too, but generally calling with a hand like this isn't the greatest on a board like this. [/ QUOTE ] Pushing is worse imo. Your are over representing your hand and will very likely be called by better hand. You can make the decision on the turn and say I will call down, you don't just have to push or fold
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#18
07-11-2007, 10:27 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is really bad. You were extremely lucky in this situation. There is nothing about this play that seems weak to me. If anything, you should have made your decision on the turn. I'd refrain from making calls like this in the future. [/ QUOTE ] yup I know I did't play it well thats why I posted it, but what line is best in the future? rerasie on flop? as I said I don't like folding on turn... [/ QUOTE ] I never advocated folding on the turn. I said make your decision, which means push/fold. You can do this on the flop too, but generally calling with a hand like this isn't the greatest on a board like this. [/ QUOTE ] Pushing is worse imo. Your are over representing your hand and will very likely be called by better hand. You can make the decision on the turn and say I will call down, you don't just have to push or fold [/ QUOTE ] Agree. Really dont see why we MUST push or fold.
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#19
07-11-2007, 10:37 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
Pushing the turn is not any good because only a 10 is calling, but calling is pretty bad too. I think you should have folded turn/river.
The best play here is to 4bet on the flop, and check/fold edit: this was in response to cooker. I agree with what he said, but not about calling.
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#20
07-11-2007, 10:40 AM
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Re: 50NL - KK, WA/WB?
It's really not a push/fold, but with the stack sizes a raise is needed, and it's basically a push. That's why I think 4betting the flop is the best move. If he pushes we fold, and if he continues he's got to have tens.
I don't see how calling away 100bb on KK in this spot is any good.
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