NLCash: Leading OOP

[PureDiesel]

very good post/must be sticky

[Vinetou]

This is a good question. I almost never do it, but I c/r often. It is more profitable probably, because no one believes you when you donk out, but even though no one believes you, that usually don't have a heart to raise you so you can't do it with monsters. I think people believe my bets more than my c/r. But I don't donk very often so I don't know that well. I know that everytime I do it, they fold.

I only donk bet flop against passive calling station guys or guys who will call with a wider range of hands than they will bet with.

[PureDiesel]

Donking is not so good in general because(as Vinetou said) they will not raise our monster.
Also, I find that they will fold to our turn bet or if we try to check-raise then they will take free card and not bluffing much otr.
So we need to balance our frequencies against different opponents, and it's not very easy, especially against descent opponents.

[MasterLJ]

Part of the reason I decided to post this was because of my new game selection. I literally only play massive donks who play far far far too much OOP. I believe I can raise any donk bet (on the flop) profitably with any two cards. I prefer to have equity, but I can only imagine what a donk is thinking when I raise their flop bet and they're holding bottom pair, middle pair or TP weak kicker when I fire again on the turn.

I just don't think it's an optimal move under almost any circumstance... still haven't seen specific hand ranges for when you'd launch a donk bet.

[creedofhubris]

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Part of the reason I decided to post this was because of my new game selection. I literally only play massive donks who play far far far too much OOP.

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NH.

[MasterLJ]

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Part of the reason I decided to post this was because of my new game selection. I literally only play massive donks who play far far far too much OOP.

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NH.

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I'm trying to spread the word:

[abcjnich]

"First, it's not a very believable bluff. Second, we lose tons of value with our strong hands."

Good thing those statements contradict each other.

[jakeduke]

LJ,

I take the same basic stance you do regarding donking and c/ring. About the only time I'll donk against a villain is if I'm pretty sure he's a bad/weak player that is not aggressive enough to raise my leads with air, or if villain is very aggro and will very likely raise my leads with air. Obviously hands to lead with are adjusted to fit villain. But by and large I'm a much bigger fan of just c/ring a ton and seeing how villains react to it. For me at least, the flop c/r is the easy part. It's figuring out what to do on the turn that I still struggle with.

[creedofhubris]

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"First, it's not a very believable bluff. Second, we lose tons of value with our strong hands."

Good thing those statements contradict each other.

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Not really. Villain flat calls a lot.

[Tupacia]

LJ,

An opponent who will raise your donk bets with a wide variety of hands is not one you should lead out against. Asking for hand ranges is impossible as you know that HU is all context-dependent.

I will repeat that against passive opponents that don't cbet very often, you will need to lead out as you won't have the opportunity to maximize the value of your hands by solely relying on a C/R.