Help me understand the deep back formation on short yardage?

[Jack of Arcades]

Well I think you really need some forward momentum here. That way even if the RB gets hit a yard or two behind the line he's got the power to push the pile forward or drag a defender over the line.

[Needle77]

Oh, well then I'll tell you why it's favored.

In short yardage plays, Nose Tackles and D-Tackles will tend to root-hog(dive at legs and grab). This causes piles. If a NT can successfully do this on a center it frees up the LB and the QB will get 0 push. Not only is the LB free, the center gets no push off the line, you get more stalemates in these situations and you are forcing your QB to move a pile.

Needless to say, QB's are not meant to move piles. In handing the ball off a play is developed, whether it be a pulling guard on a counter, or a cross block from your Tackle/Guard, the development allows for holes to open up. Sometimes you have to play your offense that got you the first 9 yards and stick with it. There was a reason you pushed the D-Line back on those previous plays, do it again.

Trust me, as an O-lineman myself, there is nothing that we enjoy more than a third and short play. We all want the ball ran up our asses so we make the big play, it looks really good on film. Trust me, it's easier to push a DT back after their inital crash inside to stop the sneak. Most of the time they are easily washed down, that's why you tend to see RB's bust big plays here, the lineman gets washed down and fills up the gap that the LB was covering, leaving his gap wide open. Don't forget, the majority of NFL teams play gap defenses, it means each player is responsible for a gap. Win that gap, win the running game.

To sum up: Give the ball to a deep back to let your O-line do their job, push the D-line back.

[Thremp]

motor,

Zone blocking teams typically just have blocking schemes IIRC and do not have set places for the RBs to go. They just let them run to daylight.

Thanks Jack, Needle and Thremp, much appreciated. It wouldn't hurt the threads if we had more of these kinds of football strategy questions occasionally..

Thanks again.

[Needle77]

[ QUOTE ]
motor,

Zone blocking teams typically just have blocking schemes IIRC and do not have set places for the RBs to go. They just let them run to daylight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disclaimer: I am by no means saying the college game is close to the NFL, nor am I saying I know anything about NFL blocking schemes and I could be completely wrong.

With that said, we run a Zone Blocking scheme at Kutztown University. There are two distinct zone blocking plays we have, Iowa(inside Zone) and Oregon(outside zone)(there is also an underneath zone but that is a discussion for a later time). Anyway, when running an inside zone, the entire line takes their step in the same direction, this is where "zone" comes in, you block the man in that zone. So if I am playing left guard, the play is designed to be run through A gap(in between me and the center) and I have a 3 technique and a 2i(3=DT on my outside shoulder and 2i=Nose guard shifted towards me) I am punching the 3 technique and working to the 2i, the center is blocking the LB, ect. The play is designed and supposed to go right up my ass. That whole needs to be cleared, if it's not the RB has an option of cutting it back.

I think, Thremp, what you are thinking of is the stretch play. In that play the RB follows his blockers and will cut up field the second he sees a whole. That is typically an NFL only play considering the level of difficulty of running it in college would be.

If I didn't make any sense ask me to clarify, it's kinda hard to type out what my assignment his but I can just write out exactly what it is from my playbook.

Edited: added left guard and where play was going. Also, I apologize for going completely off topic. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Thremp]

Needle,

I think its almost the exact same in the NFL, but do to stunts and more complicated blitz packages holes can come and go more readily.

Excellent post regardless.

[youtalkfunny]

Needle just became my favorite Sporting Events poster in this thread.

[TheRover]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't help you understand because JoA already told you what is the reasoning. What I can do is tell you my opinion. That is, in short yardage situation go to a 3 or 4 wide reciever set. Spread the defense out then hand the ball off. If they play you on the outside weak, have a check to a pass. I don't see how putting 9 defenders into the box as helpful.

Spread out the defense and then hand it off. That's my theory.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love you.

[pudley4]

If a team is going to hand the ball off in these situations, why not have a direct snap to the RB? Remove the QB and line up an extra FB/TE in the backfield to block. (Was it in TMQ that I read this?)

[TheNoodleMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't help you understand because JoA already told you what is the reasoning. What I can do is tell you my opinion. That is, in short yardage situation go to a 3 or 4 wide reciever set. Spread the defense out then hand the ball off. If they play you on the outside weak, have a check to a pass. I don't see how putting 9 defenders into the box as helpful.

Spread out the defense and then hand it off. That's my theory.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. Watch the Colts when they bring in their big goal line package and tell me they wouldn't be better off with Harrison and Wayne on the field.