Need some advice

[Ampelmann]

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this is the same for trash hands like QJ and 9Ts.

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T9s is not trash. It's a suited connector. It's a pretty good big pot hand in LP after several limpers.

[martybonus]

exactly, it's only good if you have several limpers in front of you. that's what I was saying. but it's trash otherwise.

[Guitierez]

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You have to bet to drive people out of the hand but you don't mind people staying around because it means they are putting in more money for you to win

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My advice was geared to OP's complaint about villains 'catching something on the river'. You can make them call unprofitably by raising your strong hands. You don't want many opponents in large multiway pots to reduce the probability of getting sucked out on. Is this concept really 'stuff for later'? Playing +EV in the long run, that's what LHE is all about.

Edit to add: this implies making villains play -EV

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You should know that raising for value and raising for protection come bundled together in a neat little package. So when you raise for value, you get protection free!


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Marty, I don't get this. I always thought the difference between value betting and raising for protection is that the vb you want to get called, while with raising you are happy to drive opponents out.

[Ampelmann]

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You should know that raising for value and raising for protection come bundled together in a neat little package. So when you raise for value, you get protection free!


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Marty, I don't get this. I always thought the difference between value betting and raising for protection is that the vb you want to get called, while with raising you are happy to drive opponents out.

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This was discussed several times before, see e.g. link.

In short: Protection means that you bet or raise to give people with (weak) draws one of 2 choices: to correctly fold or to incorrectly call. Of course, since calling is incorrect and a mistake, you always want them to call.

In loose limit games pots after the flop often are so big that most draws (even some longshots) will have correct odds to call. In that case you bet anyway with the best hand (with an equity edge) since most of the time the draws don't come in. That's value betting. In this case, however, you'd rather have them fold, since now folding would be the mistake.

[martybonus]

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Marty, I don't get this. I always thought the difference between value betting and raising for protection is that the vb you want to get called, while with raising you are happy to drive opponents out.

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simply put: don't raise if you are DEPENDING on knocking players out. if all you have is MP, you NEED those people to fold.

but the trouble is, a protection raise is only going to work on people with GSs and total whiffs. it wont work on FDs and OESDs. It may not even work on other MPs. So if all you have is a MP, a protection raise wil never knock enough players out to ensure that you're going to win.

however, if you raise for VALUE, you protect (it still knocks the GSs out) your hand AND you can win when the FDs and OESDs and MPs come along for the ride.

so focus on raising for value (ie TP or better) and the protection will come along for free [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[n0ctu2ne]

I think despite all the wonderful resources that have just been given to you, having gone through the very beginner stage, and sort of developing my skills:

Remember to stick to the plan! I remember doing very careful research on pre-flop selection. Right now I'm in the midst of getting the hang of basic post-flop play, but remember to stick to your pre-flop strategy.

Often it will be tempting to play those marginal hands because you either see people making great hands with them, and you start thinking that you can do the same - you start thinking, this hand wins big pots sometimes. But remember that we don't play marginal hands without position for a reason: they don't win ENOUGH.