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#12
06-09-2007, 12:59 PM
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Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
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#15
06-09-2007, 07:48 PM
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Re: What games are bots unable to beat?
Well for starters, any game not implemented on a computer is going to be a challenge (if not impossible) for a robot. But I'm sure you meant computer games. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
For the non-gambling category, the chinese game of GO comes to mind - also rock, paper, scissors. For the gambling category, most games are statistically finite with complete information and the house has the edge so the games are unbeatable to begin with - bot or no bot. For the poker category, the games are statistically finite but the information is incomplete. No bot could beat a poker game where all of the opponents were clones of itself. I'd say that a bot could not beat any poker game that a human could not be beat (I say this based on the assumption that bots are built by humans). If the previous statement is true then it's a violation of logic to claim that if a human can beat a certain poker game then a bot can too. I'm willing to say that there is no type of poker that a bot can beat but a human cannot. I think in all cases of poker, the strongest human players are equal or stronger than the strongest bots.
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#16
06-09-2007, 08:04 PM
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Re: What games are bots unable to beat?
"I'd say that a bot could not beat any poker game that a human could not be beat (I say this based on the assumption that bots are built by humans)."
this is off. bots can do plenty of things better and faster than humans, mainly counting. in poker terms, bots can do ev calcs and simulations. bots can remember how certain players act in certain situations. think about in lhe on the river when facing a river bet with a marginal hand where you only beat a bluff. you are getting 5:1 and you know your opponent is capable of bluffing sometimes but you arent sure how often. further, you arent even sure if your opponent can have a hand that needs to bluff the river, ie, did he really call hte turn with a gutshot? a good player can use his memory and instincts to make good guess against most opponents and may even be certain against some opponents. but if a bot can use several thousand hands to evaluate the opponent it can make a better guess on all opponents.
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#17
06-09-2007, 09:16 PM
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Re: What games are bots unable to beat?
[ QUOTE ]
Well for starters, any game not implemented on a computer is going to be a challenge (if not impossible) for a robot. But I'm sure you meant computer games. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] For the non-gambling category, the chinese game of GO comes to mind - also rock, paper, scissors. For the gambling category, most games are statistically finite with complete information and the house has the edge so the games are unbeatable to begin with - bot or no bot. For the poker category, the games are statistically finite but the information is incomplete. No bot could beat a poker game where all of the opponents were clones of itself. I'd say that a bot could not beat any poker game that a human could not be beat (I say this based on the assumption that bots are built by humans). If the previous statement is true then it's a violation of logic to claim that if a human can beat a certain poker game then a bot can too. I'm willing to say that there is no type of poker that a bot can beat but a human cannot. I think in all cases of poker, the strongest human players are equal or stronger than the strongest bots. [/ QUOTE ] Bots will definitely be able to beat humans at any game in the future, there is no doubt about that. The human brain is just a very very complex web of electric circuits. You just need to copy those circuits on a processor and a bot will think exactly like a human being.
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#18
06-09-2007, 09:23 PM
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Re: What games are bots unable to beat?
[ QUOTE ]
Bots will definitely be able to beat humans at any game in the future, there is no doubt about that. The human brain is just a very very complex web of electric circuits. You just need to copy those circuits on a processor and a bot will think exactly like a human being. [/ QUOTE ] In the year 2000?
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#19
06-09-2007, 09:23 PM
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Re: What games are bots unable to beat?
[ QUOTE ]
You just need to copy those circuits on a processor and a bot will think exactly like a human being. [/ QUOTE ] Lol oversimplification. But yeah, eventually bots will be able to crush any human. This is a certainty.
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#20
06-09-2007, 11:32 PM
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Re: What games are bots unable to beat?
[ QUOTE ]
I challenge any bot to a $50,000 heads up 1,000 BB NLHE freezeout [/ QUOTE ] Pardon me if I say I don't believe you but ... I don't believe you. You can't be serious here. But assuming you could prove you were serious (i.e. posting some kind of bond with lawyer), there are several immediate problems. A robot cannot play poker with you at a regular poker table (at least no robot any of us have ever seen). So that means no land based casino can host your challenge. That would mean you'd need to play electronically. Ok so now what? Where do you play? The recent bot threads here are evidence that sites hate bots because players don't want them so no site will host your challenge. How could they without violating their own policies? But for the sake of argument, let's say that some site agreed to host your challenge ... now what? Where do you actually play? Do you sit in your living room while the robot opponent sits in his living room? If so then how do you know your opponent is actually using a bot (and isn't helping)? Furthermore, how does your opponent know that you're playing alone and not getting help? Do you both travel to the site HQ and sit and play privately or is it done publically? If it's done publically then isn't the site essentially proving that at least one player successfully used a bot at their site? The site has a lot to lose here. If you really are a good player (and presumably you are to make this type of real money challenge) then what if the bot wins? Now the site has proven it's possible to use a bot to beat strong players at their site. Now what? Also, how do you know your opponent didn't bribe the site to tip the scales? How does your opponent know you didn't do the same? Am I making sense here? Or do you have some scenario that deals with all of the issues involved. Of course, if your challenge statement was a joke then I guess the joke is on me here. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] and I walked in to it.
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