200nl: Line check KK on Axx flop

[nickg1532]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call turn and fold to a decent bet on non-diamond river


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[BishopsFinger]

[ QUOTE ]
Call turn, fold to a bet if you dont improve on river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Suigin406]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call turn and fold to a decent bet on non-diamond river


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

what if river is a K?

[/ QUOTE ]

?? u fear...what if a K comes out??

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call turn and fold to a decent bet on non-diamond river


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the line different if we are OOP?

[The White Rabbit]

yeah, you should def. bet the flop OOP (or just c/f, which isn't too bad either).

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, you should def. bet the flop OOP (or just c/f, which isn't too bad either).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

[The White Rabbit]

because check/calling isn't profitable against all but the most predictable opponents. you need a very accurate read on villains strategy (like he'll bet any 2 when checked to, but almost never put more money in without the ace when called) to even consider a c/c. A c/f is best when a bet (as blocking bet/bluff to stop a bluff) isn't profitable.

[wdead]

betting the flop to avoid having to make difficult decisions is not an ev maximizing line, its a crutch to use if you dont think you are a decent postflop player

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]
because check/calling isn't profitable against all but the most predictable opponents. you need a very accurate read on villains strategy (like he'll bet any 2 when checked to, but almost never put more money in without the ace when called) to even consider a c/c. A c/f is best when a bet (as blocking bet/bluff to stop a bluff) isn't profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but what actually changes when we are OOP? If check-calling isn't profitable OOP, why is it profitable in position? Is it the fact that OOP villain has 3 opportunities to bluff us, while in position he only has 2?

Isn't checking behind on flop + check-calling turn in position just as much telling villain "I do not have an ace" as check-calling flop + checking turn OOP? Aren't we offering villain the same chance to bluff pot from us in both situations?

[The White Rabbit]

Dunno if you're talking to me or about the OP, but I agree that checking behind IP is completely standard and maximizes your EV, but as I explained, check/calling OOP just isn't gonna be profitable. Especially because you also need to give up value w/ your AA/AK/Q type of hands to balance this play, otherwise villain could always put you on either a weak ace or an underpair.